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Old 05-13-2015, 11:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
I understand where you are coming from, but wanted to share that as a member of the black middle class, I don't feel stuck at all.

I recognize that our country was built upon a system which puts black people in all categories on the bottom, no matter indivdiual accomplishments or how vast the individual accomplishments are, this system will place negative traits and characteristics on us regardless of what we do in life (system is called white supremacy).

Due to me knowing and understanding this from both a social and historical perspective, it doesn't bother me at all or make me feel "less than" anyone else due to being a black person or having people try to put negative traits on me as a black person/woman.

Light skin/dark skin/colorism issues are the same as the system I am spoke of above. They are a by-product of this system and I do feel that this is a major issue that black people need to change in this country. I also feel that what I call the "inferiority complex" needs to be remedied, which means the idea that black people are less than or inferior to other ethnic groups in this country. This inferiority complex is heavily entrenched in black America and is the reason why many on this very forum have admitted that they "try" to "be their best" or "do their best" in an effort to "prove" that black people are "good." We are inherently the same as other people. It is idiotic to not believe this and it is ridiculous to believe that the whole society's viewpoint of black Americans on the whole will change just because little Jamal got a STEM degree and works for Apple. Individual achievements make no difference in the greater society's opinion of blacks.

Also, on the whole, I don't think most blacks "hate" white people. Black people are known to be extraordinarily capable of forgiveness, which is why so many were able to participate in non-violent demonstration and even proclaim "love" of their abusers. This trait is still very prevalent amongst blacks in this country. IMO it is a fallacy to even think that a large amount of black people "hate" whites.

I am black and don't hate whites. I would guess that you as a black person also don't hate whites. Hardly any of us "hate" whites.

I do hate the fact that we are viewed poorly and through negative lens because it is unnecessary and uncalled for. But not only whites view us negatively. Many black people, which is also exhibited on this forum and is even somewhat evident in the OP, view black Americans as negative or in need of "solutions" to specific problems that are not unique to being an American in general.

IMO the only change needed in "black culture" is to delete the idea that we need to obtain white people or general American society's approval of us. It is sickening if you really think about it. Too many of us down each other and seek to impress someone on how we are....basically.... a "good negro."

This can be seen even in your example where blacks go on and on about Empire perpetuating stereotypes yet whites have all kinds of sickening shows like Dexter and Sons of Anarchy and their crazy a$$ housewives and mob wives and such as well. Regardless of whether Empire is on TV or not, people will still view blacks with a stereotypical view. So it is not really contributing anything at all to the general society's view of us. Those so adamant against it and similar shows just want to put on a "good negro" show for whites and other Americans subconsciously.
I am not all of us hate people but there is a group that blames white people all of their problems.

Then there are black who are very successful and they turned back on the rest of us and tries to fit into white society.
The group I belong to is the middle of those two groups .
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Old 05-13-2015, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Garbage, NC
3,124 posts, read 2,050,156 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
What problems are mainly a black issue?

All the issues cited that are "black problems" are indeed American problems and affect all Americans of every demographic.

Making it a "black problem" is just a continuation of the idea that blacks are inferior to other Americans.
I absolutely do not think that black people are inferior to any other race. I feel as if those who defend the behavior of black criminals think so. Honestly, the ones who are supposedly trying to help this particular group are doing the most harm by making excuses and throwing pity parties. Treat everyone the same, and have the same expectations for everyone.
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Old 05-13-2015, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Garbage, NC
3,124 posts, read 2,050,156 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sommie789 View Post
I am not all of us hate people but there is a group that blames white people all of their problems.

Then there are black who are very successful and they turned back on the rest of us and tries to fit into white society.
The group I belong to is the middle of those two groups .
What do you mean by "turned their back on the rest of us." What does "white society" even mean?
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Old 05-13-2015, 11:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkmax View Post
It is, but the race issue is coming up again due to Ferguson and such.

The thing is, white people don't defend their thugs. You'll very rarely hear a white person defending those who live in the local meth head trailer park. Decent white people have the same disdain for these losers as anyone else does.

There are plenty of politically correct white people and good, hardworking black people who insist on defending black criminals and their culture. They don't know better, they were raised poor, it's hard for black people, black people were once slaves, the rappers made them do it, blah blah blah.

Ya know, lots of trashy and thuggish whites were raised poor, or by parents who didn't teach them better, or had poor role models, etc. Yet, no one defends that, because there is really no excuse in today's world for not picking yourself up and trying to do better for yourself.
I heard plenty of people defend the poor.
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Old 05-13-2015, 12:06 PM
 
3,352 posts, read 2,265,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkmax View Post
What do you mean by "turned their back on the rest of us." What does "white society" even mean?
Once they make it big , they want nothing to with their past life.

My dad's friends somewhat look down upon us because we are not rich as them.

White society is mainstream society

Last edited by Sommie789; 05-13-2015 at 12:16 PM..
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Old 05-13-2015, 12:08 PM
 
139 posts, read 72,805 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkmax View Post
It is, but the race issue is coming up again due to Ferguson and such.

The thing is, white people don't defend their thugs. You'll very rarely hear a white person defending those who live in the local meth head trailer park. Decent white people have the same disdain for these losers as anyone else does.

There are plenty of politically correct white people and good, hardworking black people who insist on defending black criminals and their culture. They don't know better, they were raised poor, it's hard for black people, black people were once slaves, the rappers made them do it, blah blah blah.

Ya know, lots of trashy and thuggish whites were raised poor, or by parents who didn't teach them better, or had poor role models, etc. Yet, no one defends that, because there is really no excuse in today's world for not picking yourself up and trying to do better for yourself.
You oversimplify the recent uproar that we've seen over police brutality. To be sure, some have rationalized the riots in Baltimore; however, many more have expressed outrage, and rightly so, over the wrongful deaths of Blacks at the hands of the police. It's quite telling that many attempt to rationalize the criminal actions of certain police officers.

Additionally, you are misguided in your association of criminal activity with Black culture. As I've stated previously, most Blacks are law-abiding citizens who contribute to our society like so many other racial groups. It's a wonder how some individuals are unwilling to see past gross generalizations of an entire demographic.
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Old 05-13-2015, 12:08 PM
 
15,449 posts, read 7,885,774 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkmax View Post
I absolutely do not think that black people are inferior to any other race. I feel as if those who defend the behavior of black criminals think so. Honestly, the ones who are supposedly trying to help this particular group are doing the most harm by making excuses and throwing pity parties. Treat everyone the same, and have the same expectations for everyone.
So you think that black people make "excuses" for criminals???

That in itself is saying we are inferior to whites who don't make such "excuses" for white criminals.

What criminals are you talking about?

(that is rhetorical because I bet you are just referring to media coverage of high profile police killings. And due to me knowing that that is the case, do you not consider police officers who shoot people running away in the back as a criminal? If so, why are you giving them a past. And FYI, police brutality and the media coverage which is designed to further divide our country on issues related to race, even though police brutallity by itself is not a racial issue, are not indicative of black views on crimes. Black people are victims of crimes as well, most of the time by black offenders and no black people I know want to see criminals go free after it has been shown that they committed an criminal offiense. In regards to police, black people, like a majority of Americans, hold police to a higher authority than the general population. Police are given a trust to protect the public and black people on the whole want and expect them to do that in a professional, non-aggressive/combative manner versus just killing non-violent subjects. Black people believe that all suspects have a constitutional right due process to determine if said suspect actually committed that crime. Black people on the whole know that this process begins with police and ends in court, not starts and ends with police. Will also share that as a black person, I know that the protests and actions being taken on this issue will benefit white people and all Americans in regards to getting reforms with police. Also that many whites you don't know about, who may have a petty criminal record have also been killed and harrassed by police and I for one don't want them to be killed or harrassed either).
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Old 05-13-2015, 12:18 PM
 
20,142 posts, read 11,167,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
Are you black?

If not, you may not understand that I am speaking specifically of colorism within black America. It is still pervasive in black America that dark skinned people (especially women) are not as attracted as bi-racial/lighter skinned black women.

Hair texture, though also improving with the popularity of "natural hair" (I have been natural since 1998) is still seen as "bad" when it is more thick, course, or nappy versus a bi-racial person or a person who is "mixed" with something other than black.

These are just a couple and they and many others are highly pervasive ideas and social conditioning attitudes in black America.

And ETA: that I agree with your last assumption that bi-racials are seen as "superior" still, meaning that the less "mixed" one is with something non-black, then the prettier, better, or more superior you are.
I am black--and old. Colorism in the larger culture affects colorism within black culture. In the 1800s, when percentage of blackness frequently directly related to the level of freedom and rights (especially in places like Louisiana)--colorism had a tangible social relevance in the larger American culture.

That changed in the early 1900s. Black was black as far as whites were concerned, thus it lost much of its significance in black culture. A light-skinned black faced the same prejudice as a dark-skinned black. "Colored" meant all of us; "White" meant none of us.

And something else was true: Interracial marriage was through most of the 20th century flat-out illegal in half the states, and where it wasn't illegal, it was socially discouraged in the strongest possible measures. It was relatively very rare that a light-skinned black was the result of an interracial marriage. Light-skinned blacks were almost exclusively the product of the genetic dice of black parents.

A white person who married black lost his "white card." He lost all white privilege. He would likely be rejected by his family, he'd lose his job and chances of advancement, he'd be shut out of white housing. His children would be considered as black as the children of any two black parents. He would have to enroll his children into the black schools, live in the black neighborhoods, and teach his children that they were fully black. There was no such thing in American society as "bi-racial."

So if you look at Civil Rights marches from the 50s and 60s, you see light-skinned blacks just as stridently protesting as dark-skinned blacks.

That crucial factor began to change in the 80s. In the 80s, whites married to blacks got to keep their "white cards" and white privileges. They no longer raised their children as black. Today, I'd guess that most light-skinned black Millennials are biracial--which was not the case 50 years ago.

Society has actually begun treating bi-racial people as a separate class, beginning with recognizing "bi-racial" itself as a separate categorization both in the media and sociologically.

That creates a dichotomy of self-concept among people who otherwise look very much alike, but also causes confusion. The light-skinned blacks who are the product of two black parents are still raised to think of themselves as fully black, while people with the same shade of skin do not. But that distinction is lost to darker-skinned blacks today who recognize that bi-racials are considered different...and better. To be the light-skinned child of two black parents is to be the odd-man-out today.
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Old 05-13-2015, 12:32 PM
 
3,352 posts, read 2,265,270 times
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Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
I am black--and old. Colorism in the larger culture affects colorism within black culture. In the 1800s, when percentage of blackness frequently directly related to the level of freedom and rights (especially in places like Louisiana)--colorism had a tangible social relevance in the larger American culture.

That changed in the early 1900s. Black was black as far as whites were concerned, thus it lost much of its significance in black culture. A light-skinned black faced the same prejudice as a dark-skinned black. "Colored" meant all of us; "White" meant none of us.

And something else was true: Interracial marriage was through most of the 20th century flat-out illegal in half the states, and where it wasn't illegal, it was socially discouraged in the strongest possible measures. It was relatively very rare that a light-skinned black was the result of an interracial marriage. Light-skinned blacks were almost exclusively the product of the genetic dice of black parents.

A white person who married black lost his "white card." He lost all white privilege. He would likely be rejected by his family, he'd lose his job and chances of advancement, he'd be shut out of white housing. His children would be considered as black as the children of any two black parents. He would have to enroll his children into the black schools, live in the black neighborhoods, and teach his children that they were fully black. There was no such thing in American society as "bi-racial."

So if you look at Civil Rights marches from the 50s and 60s, you see light-skinned blacks just as stridently protesting as dark-skinned blacks.

That crucial factor began to change in the 80s. In the 80s, whites married to blacks got to keep their "white cards" and white privileges. They no longer raised their children as black. Today, I'd guess that most light-skinned black Millennials are biracial--which was not the case 50 years ago.

Society has actually begun treating bi-racial people as a separate class, beginning with recognizing "bi-racial" itself as a separate categorization both in the media and sociologically.

That creates a dichotomy of self-concept among people who otherwise look very much alike, but also causes confusion. The light-skinned blacks who are the product of two black parents are still raised to think of themselves as fully black, while people with the same shade of skin do not. But that distinction is lost to darker-skinned blacks today who recognize that bi-racials are considered different...and better. To be the light-skinned child of two black parents is to be the odd-man-out today.
A lot of white men in the past had black women on the side and my granny is product of that.
Most of us are not fully Black , most of us mix with Latino or White.
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Old 05-13-2015, 12:49 PM
 
20,142 posts, read 11,167,188 times
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Originally Posted by Sommie789 View Post
A lot of white men in the past had black women on the side and my granny is product of that.
Most of us are not fully Black , most of us mix with Latino or White.
"Black woman on the side" is not marriage.

I strongly suspect your grandmother was raised to think of herself black, not biracial.

Beginning in the 70s there was a rising tide of bi-racial children plus the acceptance and acknowledgement of bi-raciality that did not exist before. That changes the "complexion" of the colorism issue.
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