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Old 05-11-2015, 09:19 PM
 
39,213 posts, read 20,338,563 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
There are multiple flaws in your argument.

He didnt say "black Trash" he said black Culture. He didnt differentiate, he went in totality. He also made that argument in a way that states you cant have black culture and want to get a college education.

If you disagree with the way I phrased that, then explain why. I would actually like an answer from the OP since he/she wrote it, but since you responded, you can try your hand as well.

further more, I dont view everything as an attack or condescending, but can you honestly say this wasnt, Your very example of white trash was condescending, you were simply arguing that it is true.

something being true doesnt mean it isnt condescending.
White trash is a term referring to poor white people. The term suggests outcasts from respectable society living on the fringes of the social order, who are seen as dangerous because they may be criminal, unpredictable, and without respect for authority whether it be political, legal, or moral.

uhm
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Old 05-11-2015, 11:36 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
28,442 posts, read 15,427,246 times
Reputation: 11374
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
I realize you possibly meant this post as a positive response to what is going on in the world, but it comes off as condescending and begs the question of what do you see as black culture and why you believe it needs to change?
What I focused on is... the media narrative of Ferguson and Baltimore about things being the same for the black culture since the civil rights days.

I am just taking note of a positive where this young man I know who came out of a low income family has graduated college and has a great opportunity to change his family for the better. I am taking note that despite the events that are splashed in our faces on a daily basis, things are improving for blacks around the country... especially in low income single parent households where the odds are stacked against them.

I don't get the "condescending" angle - and honestly I don't want to.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
There are multiple flaws in your argument.

He didnt say "black Trash" he said black Culture. He didnt differentiate, he went in totality. He also made that argument in a way that states you cant have black culture and want to get a college education.

If you disagree with the way I phrased that, then explain why. I would actually like an answer from the OP since he/she wrote it, but since you responded, you can try your hand as well.

further more, I dont view everything as an attack or condescending, but can you honestly say this wasnt, Your very example of white trash was condescending, you were simply arguing that it is true.

something being true doesnt mean it isnt condescending.
Regarding the underlined... I am talking media narrative and how they portray the black culture.

I agree with the underlined above and I am shining a light on it.

Last edited by DRob4JC; 05-11-2015 at 11:44 PM..
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Old 05-12-2015, 12:08 AM
 
Location: Japan
10,717 posts, read 4,419,711 times
Reputation: 6893
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWiseWino View Post
Excuuuuse me! Change black culture? That you very much but no thank you.

Black culture produced W.E.B Dubois, John Hope Franklin, Sylvester James Gates, J. Erenest Wilkins and Neal DeGrasse-Tyson.

Black culture produced W.C. Handy, Louis Armstrong, Edward Kennedy "Duke" Ellington, Miles Davis and Wynton Marsallis.

Black culture produced Countee Cullen, Langston Hughes, Zora Neale Thurston, James Baldwin, Maya Angelou and Toni Morrison.

Black culture produced, Jackie Robinson, Jessie Owens, Bill Russell, Mohammad Ali, Karem Abdul Jabbar, and Magic Johnson.

Black culture produced Josephine Baker, Martha Graham, Alvin Ailey, Judith Jamison and Misty Copeland.

Black culture produced, Thurgood Marshall, Daniel James Jr. Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice, and 88 African American men who gave full measure for this country and as a result have been recognized with the nation's highest honor...

Now if you want to do something about the culture of poverty, please be my guess but don't restrict you efforts to young African Americans, there are plenty of white, latino, Asian, and Native America who live in poverty, awash with drugs, violence, dysfunctional families, and myriad of other problems associated with low economic status.

So please leave black culture the buck alone!
Well said. And a nice rebuttal to those who claim there is no black culture since slaves were robbed of their African identities.
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Old 05-12-2015, 07:38 AM
 
39,213 posts, read 20,338,563 times
Reputation: 12736
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
What I focused on is... the media narrative of Ferguson and Baltimore about things being the same for the black culture since the civil rights days.

I am just taking note of a positive where this young man I know who came out of a low income family has graduated college and has a great opportunity to change his family for the better. I am taking note that despite the events that are splashed in our faces on a daily basis, things are improving for blacks around the country... especially in low income single parent households where the odds are stacked against them.

I don't get the "condescending" angle - and honestly I don't want to.




Regarding the underlined... I am talking media narrative and how they portray the black culture.

I agree with the underlined above and I am shining a light on it.
If you focus on the positive stories how about telling Michele about it. She's out there stoking the anger. As for the people who are in poverty. Their thinking is their own worst enemy. The way they view the country, there's not much anyone can do to help them until they change the mindset.
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Old 05-12-2015, 07:56 AM
 
15,402 posts, read 7,871,041 times
Reputation: 7988
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Just wanted to put this out there...

Many see the media reports of the Ferguson and Baltimore incidents and go along with the narrative that there is no progress - and that blacks are in the same boat that we have been in since the civil rights days.

I went to a graduation this weekend. My wife's best friend has four sons whom she is raising up on her own (+10 yrs. husband left). The oldest received his BA degree. The second oldest just completed his first year of college. The mom is tireless in her work, support for the kids' activities, church attendance, participation, prayer, etc. with not a lot of income. I don't know how she does it. I am pretty sure the boys are getting scholarship because of the family's low income.

The point is, this is how change occurs - one person at a time... one decision at a time to do the right thing day after day. It's a slow process. The boy that graduated has no personal burdens that will restrict him from getting the experience he needs to advance in his field.

It could be a high school athlete who gets a four year scholarship. The athlete may have no chance of becoming a pro athlete, but he can get a free college education and change his/her family tree for the better for future generations.

So - in this graduation season - if you are a black single parent that has kids that are graduating college - congratulations and thank you - you are THE change of black culture.
Your friend and her son is no different than millions of other black families. There is nothing wrong with "black culture." You associate the black underclass culture with all black people. That is the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jabber_wocky View Post
I did not come from a family that cared, but I decided that I personally was going to change the generation after myself. The majority of my black family are drug-addicts and alcoholics and always have been. Education was not encouraged in my home and I was ridiculed and abused for being different. I always felt through education I could be more than they have aspired to be. I spent my time at the library. Being different and "weird" saved my life. I am the only female in my family currently without children because I wanted to wait to complete my education. My fiance and I would like to have a family soon. I am also the only one that does not abuse drugs or alcohol.

At age 16, I dropped out of school and ran away from home. I began working and eventually went to get a GED. I enrolled in university in 2 years after that. I applied for an internship and was accepted. I have since earned two graduate degrees and work in a technical field in which I love. We do not have to succumb to the negativity and it takes those that believe in a better future for ourselves and our loves ones to make a positive change.
That is great. I was similar, but my parents and everyone around me supported me in my weirdness lol. It does make a difference to have the support. I graduated with honors (4.63 GPA) and went to college and began a career, went back to college as I worked in the banking industry and am happy I went back prior to the collaspe and now work in public aministration management and consulting and am working on a graduate degree.

It is always great to have "sense" IMO. Sense enough to know at a young age that you don't want a particular sort of existence especially. Luckily both my parents got off of drugs and alcohol and were great role models to me. Both sets of my grandparents were known as "bourgoisie" so I had a good network of extended family who supported me financially as well through difficult times.

But I did want to point out that many of those who will applaud your story of self reliance will also denigrate black people for dropping out of school, not knowing that many times circumstances occur, like what happened to you, that drives people to leave school but then come back later and get a GED and move on. Many black people drop out and subsequently get a GED and go on to college. My mom was a teen mom, dropped out at 15 when she got pregnant and was on welfare for 4 years. She then went and got a GED, got a college degree and started her own business. So this sort of things is not rare and is one that people should consider when they see education statistics that don't take into account actual circumstances of those polled or track their outcome later in life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWiseWino View Post
Excuuuuse me! Change black culture? That you very much but no thank you.

Black culture produced W.E.B Dubois, John Hope Franklin, Sylvester James Gates, J. Erenest Wilkins and Neal DeGrasse-Tyson.

Black culture produced W.C. Handy, Louis Armstrong, Edward Kennedy "Duke" Ellington, Miles Davis and Wynton Marsallis.

Black culture produced Countee Cullen, Langston Hughes, Zora Neale Thurston, James Baldwin, Maya Angelou and Toni Morrison.

Black culture produced, Jackie Robinson, Jessie Owens, Bill Russell, Mohammad Ali, Karem Abdul Jabbar, and Magic Johnson.

Black culture produced Josephine Baker, Martha Graham, Alvin Ailey, Judith Jamison and Misty Copeland.

Black culture produced, Thurgood Marshall, Daniel James Jr. Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice, and 88 African American men who gave full measure for this country and as a result have been recognized with the nation's highest honor...

Now if you want to do something about the culture of poverty, please be my guess but don't restrict you efforts to young African Americans, there are plenty of white, latino, Asian, and Native America who live in poverty, awash with drugs, violence, dysfunctional families, and myriad of other problems associated with low economic status.

So please leave black culture the buck alone!
I agree. Black American culture is actually rich and loving and filled with the idea we come from strength and can overcome anything. Those who associate it with the most negative behaviors of the underclass have their blinders on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabchuck View Post
I'm pretty sure the OP meant a certain demographic of the black culture, particularly those that would fall under the category "hood rat" or "thug"....just saying.
But he/she said "black culture." Black American culture is not a hood rat or thug culture. It is about strength and perserverance, actually everything that jabber_wocky shared about his/her own experience.

I personally feel that it is a racial prejudice that causes people to lumb the hood rat/thug culture onto "black culture." I dont' know of any other demographic where the lowest of their low is synonymous with the entire group of people. For instance, no one associates all whites as being "trailer trash" or "rednecks" like they lump all black people in with hood rats and thugs. And FWIW, I knew WAY more trailer trash/PWT (poor white trash) types of whites versus middle class whites because I grew up knowing a lot of poor white people. Their behavior is just as bad as a black thug/hood rat and they commit crimes, drink to excess (WAY more than black hood rats in most cases), are sloppy/junky (I knew a lot of whites who basically had junk yards in their front yard of their house), dirty, have houses filled with domestic violence and all sort of dysfunction - but I don't consider them to represent "white culture" as it seems the OP and many on this forum consider thugs and hood rats to represent black culture.
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Old 05-12-2015, 08:14 AM
 
139 posts, read 72,712 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrose View Post
It's not just the hood rat element that has people so concerned about "black culture."

It's that blacks have the lowest education as a race or culture per capita in the nation, and deride those blacks that respect education.
It's that blacks have the highest crime rate per capita.
It's that 95% of all black murders are done by other blacks, yet their focus is that whites cause all their problems.
It's that blacks have the highest teenage pregnancy rate in the nation,
The highest single parenting homes,
It's that blacks have become very racist.
It's that blacks have the highest poverty rate per capita and embrace entitlement culture.
And sadly, that most blacks including educated and wealthy blacks are in denial that this is still a BIG PART of black culture.

I've talked to blacks from other countries who get really upset with American black culture -- they are shocked at the gangsta pop culture, the lack of personal responsibility, the lack of appreciating and taking advantage of a free education, etc

American culture celebrates the great and heroic stride blacks have made everyday in the media, in movies, in college classes, In Black appreciation month, black heritage week, black museums, etc, etc
No other culture gets the amount of positive kudos that blacks get. So stop with the whining about lack of positive attention.

There are courageous black conservatives trying to shine a light and actually reverse a lot of the negative behavior and choices in black culture. They are the ones who should be getting more attention.
I never find it particularly useful to compare one racial group to another in a direct sense, due to the many variables one must control for. In my experience, it's been a far more productive exercise to analyze statistical trends and discover their underlying catalysts.

Most Blacks in America are not impoverished, nor are the majority associated with criminal activity. While a cliché observation, I do believe the media does a lackluster job in portraying the positives of Black cultural achievements. One has to look no further than historic trends to see how far Blacks have come in regards to violent crime, poverty rate (i.e., according to Pew Research Center, 41.8% of Blacks were impoverished in 1966, compared to 27.2% in 2012, and this is after the devastating effects of the 2008 credit crisis), and high school dropout rates (i.e., at 8% in 2012 from 13% in 1990).

With that said, a change in culture seems neither warranted nor desirable with such progress, as exemplified above, being made. Black culture, if such a thing exists in the monolithic form many characterize it as, is not better or worse than others in the U.S., in my opinion. From my readings, it appears poverty and education factors play larger roles than culture in people adopting undesirable traits as determined by society. This is seen across all racial groups.
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Old 05-12-2015, 09:27 AM
 
15,402 posts, read 7,871,041 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Middling Swordsman View Post
I never find it particularly useful to compare one racial group to another in a direct sense, due to the many variables one must control for. In my experience, it's been a far more productive exercise to analyze statistical trends and discover their underlying catalysts.

Most Blacks in America are not impoverished, nor are the majority associated with criminal activity. While a cliché observation, I do believe the media does a lackluster job in portraying the positives of Black cultural achievements. One has to look no further than historic trends to see how far Blacks have come in regards to violent crime, poverty rate (i.e., according to Pew Research Center, 41.8% of Blacks were impoverished in 1966, compared to 27.2% in 2012, and this is after the devastating effects of the 2008 credit crisis), and high school dropout rates (i.e., at 8% in 2012 from 13% in 1990).

With that said, a change in culture seems neither warranted nor desirable with such progress, as exemplified above, being made. Black culture, if such a thing exists in the monolithic form many characterize it as, is not better or worse than others in the U.S., in my opinion. From my readings, it appears poverty and education factors play larger roles than culture in people adopting undesirable traits as determined by society. This is seen across all racial groups.

You are making too much sense here!

I have been saying the bold around here for years but no one seems to understand it for some reason.

They truly believe that prior to 1960 that black people were equal in all areas to whites due to having a higher marriage rate lol.
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Old 05-12-2015, 10:56 AM
Status: "I hate living in Georgia!!" (set 7 days ago)
 
47,980 posts, read 45,443,916 times
Reputation: 15310
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
You are making too much sense here!

I have been saying the bold around here for years but no one seems to understand it for some reason.

They truly believe that prior to 1960 that black people were equal in all areas to whites due to having a higher marriage rate lol.
The sad thing is this. Many people aren't interested in showing that progress has been made in the Black population. More people with college degrees than ever, more Blacks in the middle class than in 1960s, more Blacks in professional jobs than in those days. Progress has been made. However, the underclass gets pointed to more than anything else.
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Old 05-12-2015, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
28,442 posts, read 15,427,246 times
Reputation: 11374
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
Your friend and her son is no different than millions of other black families. There is nothing wrong with "black culture." You associate the black underclass culture with all black people. That is the problem.
Am I not communicating properly?

I am saying the black culture is continuing it's change for the better - despite the media narrative.

Now my friend's family is indeed different in that many kids from single parent black households end up in the street doing nothing productive.


Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
If you focus on the positive stories how about telling Michele about it. She's out there stoking the anger. As for the people who are in poverty. Their thinking is their own worst enemy. The way they view the country, there's not much anyone can do to help them until they change the mindset.
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
The sad thing is this. Many people aren't interested in showing that progress has been made in the Black population. More people with college degrees than ever, more Blacks in the middle class than in 1960s, more Blacks in professional jobs than in those days. Progress has been made. However, the underclass gets pointed to more than anything else.
Thanks to all who understood my point.
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Old 05-12-2015, 11:18 AM
 
1,112 posts, read 869,007 times
Reputation: 1467
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Originally Posted by Quaker15 View Post
This is what personal responsibility is about. Have you read Ben Carson's books?
I have not.
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