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Old 05-25-2015, 01:22 PM
 
9,065 posts, read 5,591,238 times
Reputation: 3824

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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
My kids are now 37 and 39 years old, were immunized against measles and never got it, just like millions of others. Followup surveillance supports enduring protection with the measles vaccine in particular, which is the reason most adults do not need measles boosters. Measles no longer is endemic in the US, which is the reason that cases in the US now are imported from other countries or derive from contact with such cases.

Why should the necessity for boosters make a difference?

Vaccines save money. It costs more to treat the diseases they prevent.

Economic Evaluation of the Routine Childhood Immunization Program in the United States, 2009

With measles infection, the immune system sustains damage that lasts for two to three years, during which the measles victim is susceptible to other infections, which can be fatal. Measles vaccine, by preventing measles infection, reduces the number of infections due to other organisms.

I had dinner last night with two friends who are pediatricians. They no longer see children with meningitis, due to the Hib and pneumococcal vaccines and a lesser extent the meningococcal vaccine. They said before that when any child came into the office with a fever that the question that had to be answered was, "Do we need to rule out meningitis?" That is no longer true. In fact, pediatric residents are finding it difficult to become proficient in spinal taps because so few children need them.

While the anti-vax contingent moans about autism, which is not caused by vaccines, vaccines have essentially wiped out childhood meningitis, which used to cause deaths and brain damage in survivors.

Money $pent on vaccines is money well $pent.
Aside the story just told, the proof is in the pudding. The per capita healthcare costs have reached astronomical proportions, so the idea that inexpensive prevention has been so successful is a complete load of crap, just like the "affordable healthcare act" was supposed to reduce costs.

The Orwellian nonsense about childhood disease harming the immune system is equally hogwash, as prior to this latest propaganda, it was well understood that such disease was instrumental in the healthy development of our immune systems. In fact, there are growing numbers of legitimate researchers who suspect that the epidemic like increases in chronic diseases like diabetes, food allergies, autoimmune disease, etc., may be the consequence of vaccine intervention in this immune system building process, which may be exchanging infectious disease for life long chronic disease.

Like most other information coming out of the mainstream today, it really is Orwellian in the extreme. Case in point is the latest twist which urges pregnant mothers to take flu shots, in direct contradiction to decades of warnings in years past which urged the opposite.

So, yes, things are a changin', up is now down ... left is now right ... and ignorance is strength.

The very last thing we should expect from the medical establishment is preventive medicine, and especially inexpensive prevention. After decades of "advanced medicine", the results speak for themselves, and what are those results? We enjoy the dubious honor of being not just the leader in major disease incidence, but also the nation that spends the most.

 
Old 05-25-2015, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,883 posts, read 102,281,764 times
Reputation: 32946
Vaccine shedding is another anti-vaccine myth.
Myths That Keep People From Vaccinating Their Kids
What You Need To Know About Live Vaccines
(Second link is more specific)

Unvaccinated kids are a danger to kids and adults who are immunocompromised, because they could be contagious at any point in time. The unvaxed are also a danger to babies who are too young to receive certain vaccines, e.g. MMR, chickenpox, Hep A and other for the same reason. For other vaccines that infants get, e.g. DTaP, polio, Hib, Hepatitis B, Prevnar and rotavirus, the unvaxed are a danger b/c infants aren't fully protected until they have had the full series of these vaccines, generally around age 6 months. Unvaxed kids are also a danger to those few people for whom the vaccines don't give immunity.
 
Old 05-25-2015, 02:34 PM
 
9,065 posts, read 5,591,238 times
Reputation: 3824
NO MYTH ...Vaccinated do shed and spread disease.

[Studies Show that Vaccinated Individuals Spread Disease - Weston A Price

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Vaccine shedding is another anti-vaccine myth.
Myths That Keep People From Vaccinating Their Kids
What You Need To Know About Live Vaccines
(Second link is more specific)
See above well sourced information showing virus shedding.

Quote:
Unvaccinated kids are a danger to kids and adults who are immunocompromised, because they could be contagious at any point in time.
The old dog meows and cat barks routine LOL. The only way an unvaccinated person could spread disease is IF they had been exposed and infected with the virus. And that is a BIG IF. On the other hand, a vaccinated person has ABSOLUTELY been exposed and infected (injected with the virus). This is why the vaccinated are FAR MORE a threat, because they have been deliberately infected, while the unvaccinated would only be a threat if they were accidentally exposed by random chance. This isn't rocket science ... just common sense, minus the ludicrous propaganda about dogs that meow.

Quote:

The unvaxed are also a danger to babies who are too young to receive certain vaccines, e.g. MMR, chickenpox, Hep A and other for the same reason. For other vaccines that infants get, e.g. DTaP, polio, Hib, Hepatitis B, Prevnar and rotavirus, the unvaxed are a danger b/c infants aren't fully protected until they have had the full series of these vaccines, generally around age 6 months. Unvaxed kids are also a danger to those few people for whom the vaccines don't give immunity.
Are you suggesting that Johns Hopkins is engaging in conspiracy theory and myth when informing patients of avoiding contact with recently vaccinated persons?

You see, this is the type of double talk I constantly point to. One source claims one thing, and another claims the opposite. Sometimes, the doubletalk is so blatantly pathetic, like the measles vaccine information listing a high fever and rash as a possible side effect of the vaccine, while also stating that the vaccine cannot cause illness. Forget the fact that the primary symptoms of measles is high fever and rash. Same for the influenza vaccine side effects which can include muscle aches, fever, runny nose, congestion, while also stating that the vaccine can't give you the flu ... just similar symptoms, dontcha know.

It almost sounds like a comedy sketch ...but this is no laughing matter. The truth is, if you do your own research, you will find plenty of SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE which directly challenges the conclusions of the vaccine pushers. Funny, since it's the same scientific data they claim supports their conclusions. Psst ... they're lying.
 
Old 05-25-2015, 03:13 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,883 posts, read 102,281,764 times
Reputation: 32946
Weston Price is not a reliable source. It's quackery.
My Concerns about "Holistic" and "Biological" Dentistry
CNBC publishes an antivaccine press release from the Weston A. Price Foundation and Leslie Manookian – Respectful Insolence

Johns Hopkins changed their page last March when Weston Price put a PAID AD on cnbc regarding their misinformation.
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/kimme...atient%205.pdf
Do note, revised 3/15.

There is no, I repeat no scientific evidence to support this "shedding" idea as you have described it. Zip, nada, none.
 
Old 05-25-2015, 03:52 PM
 
Location: in the mountains
1,372 posts, read 803,248 times
Reputation: 2058
Quote:
Originally Posted by daylux View Post
Over-vaccinating dogs and cats have been proven to cause auto-immune diseases. I'm not sure why we can't admit that over-vaccinating humans can cause the same harm?
They'll never admit it because of the monnnnaaaaaaayyyyyyy
 
Old 05-25-2015, 08:25 PM
 
9,065 posts, read 5,591,238 times
Reputation: 3824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Weston Price is not a reliable source. It's quackery.
My Concerns about "Holistic" and "Biological" Dentistry
CNBC publishes an antivaccine press release from the Weston A. Price Foundation and Leslie Manookian – Respectful Insolence

Johns Hopkins changed their page last March when Weston Price put a PAID AD on cnbc regarding their misinformation.
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/kimme...atient%205.pdf
Do note, revised 3/15.

There is no, I repeat no scientific evidence to support this "shedding" idea as you have described it. Zip, nada, none.
How pathetic. So, when Weston Price cited Johns Hopkins rather inconvenient admission, they removed the information, and so, you are claiming Johns Hopkins was engaging in "misinformation", but decided to stop? Please.

In any case, Johns Hopkins was only ONE of SEVERAL different sources confirming the "shedding, including sources that have not only found the vaccine virus in the urine of vaccinated persons, but also found active infections of flu virus typed back to the vaccine, rather than the wild virus, which is definitive proof that the vaccine can indeed spread the disease.

Of course you and others must DENY, DENY, DENY ... you have no other alternative, other than admit you're dead wrong, and in so doing, your entire fraud would collapse. We should not foolishly hold our breath waiting for that to happen, because we already know full well that what we are confronting here are deliberate lies and deception ... not simple error.
 
Old 05-25-2015, 10:41 PM
 
8,494 posts, read 7,642,793 times
Reputation: 8076
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
Read the text of the article link below, then continue!

Public Health Officials Know: Recently Vaccinated Individuals Spread Disease

"I've read ....." ? Well guess what? I've had the measles, and mumps, and chickenpox, just like everyone else did when I was a kid. And contrary to the false narrative fear mongering BS that constantly flows from the vaccine industry, back in the day, it was NO BIG DEAL, and viewed as just an inevitable part of growing up. That's quite a contrast to the history rewrite that paints these childhood diseases as akin to the plague.

But the more important point that our ghoulish Orwellian authorities have twisted the truth into a prezzel, in an up=down lie about the danger posed by the unvaccinated. The REAL TRUTH is it is NOT the unvaccinated who pose the threat of disease spread ... it is the vaccinated who are the REAL danger. With all the propaganda demonizing those who wisely choose to avoid pumping poison into their children under the guise of good health practice, it's the well meaning but grossly misinformed who allow these live virus vaccines to be injected into their otherwise healthy children, making them little virus shedding machines that endanger everyone coming into contact with them for weeks afterward. I know that sounds totally crazy to those programmed by the endless lies from the medical establishment ... and yes I do mean deliberate lies such as "vaccines cannot cause disease or spread of disease". If that were actually true, why would those same authorities also warn immune compromised individuals to avoid contact with recently vaccinated people? What double think is this?

I'll tell you what this is .... an endless stream of lies and contradictions which renders many people so confuse, they just beg for someone (usually their trusted doctor) to pat them on the head, tell them it's alright, and assure them that things will be OK ... don't worry ... you're in good hands.

Of course ... the best thing to do is to utilize a bit of common sense, and block out the BS being funneled into their ears, and just ask yourself some really easy questions, like:

1) if vaccines are effective, then the vaccinated should have no fear of the unvaccinated. How can an unvaccinated person who has most likely not been exposed to a particular virus pose a threat to someone who is supposed to be protected by vaccination? That makes NO SENSE AT ALL. On the contrary, common sense would argue that the vaccinated person (injected with the live virus) has been deliberately and unquestionably exposed to the virus, and would therefore be the most likely source of threat to shed the virus, and expose others.

2) .... well let's just address #1 first .... it's really basic, and shouldn't be too difficult for those still possessing the capacity for rudimentary logic.
Holy

Last edited by Informed Info; 05-25-2015 at 10:50 PM..
 
Old 05-26-2015, 12:17 AM
 
9,065 posts, read 5,591,238 times
Reputation: 3824
Quote:
Originally Posted by kell490 View Post
Says here home schooling is legal in all 50 states only 2 states require prior approval. I think your opinion is just that and far from fact. I know several people that have home schooled none have any issues with CPS.

Homeschooling in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Another PhD from the university of Wikipedia? Great.

Now I don't know if you're being dishonest or you just aren't well informed, but only 11 of the 50 states require no notification to the state officials from home schoolers. The other 39 have varying degrees of rules, up to officials visits to homes ... approval of curriculum ... teacher qualifications ... etc. And when state approval is required, ... only a privilege exists, and privileges can be denied.

And for anyone who is willing to be honest, they know full well that while something may be legal and allowed, it is often made extremely difficult by zealots in government positions of authority. Dirty tricks, to intimidation, red tape and bureaucratic stone walling ... and even unlawful conduct is not uncommon.

I will not address any further input from you until you demonstrate reasonable knowledge or a willingness to engage in honest debate
 
Old 05-26-2015, 12:32 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,272 posts, read 28,068,309 times
Reputation: 28721
Quote:
Originally Posted by daylux View Post
Over-vaccinating dogs and cats have been proven to cause auto-immune diseases. I'm not sure why we can't admit that over-vaccinating humans can cause the same harm?
Although widely spread through lay sites on the web, the idea that vaccines cause autoimmune diseases in pets does not appear to be true.

Autoimmune Disease in Dogs and Cats Explained | Web DVM

"Do vaccines cause autoimmune disease?

No. It has become a popular topic among internet chat forum people, some breeders, groomers, and other non-medically people that work in the pet industry that pet vaccines are a major cause for autoimmune disease in dogs and cats. The reality, however, is that the link to vaccines causing autoimmune disease is at best thin. While it is true that vaccines can trigger or exacerbate autoimmune disease in a patient already genetically predisposed to it, they are not the cause. As such, attempts to prevent autoimmune disease by not having pets immunized are both misguided and dangerous, leaving pets susceptible to deadly infectious disease when the main determination of whether or not a pet will develop autoimmune disease lies in its genetic code."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Let's switch the subject from the deadly, contagious Disney Measles epidemic of 100 people which killed zero infected. Media (sponsored by WHAT agenda?) created a panic and demand for more legislation to mandate vaccinations for little children.

I give you Whooping Cough instead (sic). That DTP vaccine has been around far longer than MMR. So how come deadly, contagious pertussis has not been eradicated from the US? In 2012 there were 50,000, as opposed to 100 measles, cases across the country. Where is the outrage against Dr. Jenny parents of young children not vaccinating to that one? Vaccinate 100% of the little children and there will not be THOUSANDS of whooping cough cases!!!

Come on "health care professionals" and pro vaxers explain WHY there are so many whooping cough outbreaks. Yes, I KNOW the answer. I want YOU to ADMIT why. Hint. It is not because parents are not vaccinating babies.
The pertussis vaccine is not as effective as the measles vaccine. Adults need at least one pertussis booster. They do not usually need a measles booster, unless they are old enough to have received the killed virus measles vaccine. Most whooping cough cases are in unvaccinated people, including adults who have waning immunity (hence the need for the booster).

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
And all of this based on bold face lies (alleged safety and efficacy of the mandated vaccines), and promoted by the pure idiocy of the illogical and unscientific (and absent of any form of basic common sense) notion that the unvacinated coud pose a threat to the vaccinated! The point here is far too obvious ... if the vaccines actually protected against the various diseases as they insist, then the unvaccinated couldn't possibly pose any risk whatsoever to those protected by their vaccinations. This rather obvious conclusion does not require a medical degree .... just two brain cells capable of shaking hands.
Vaccines are not 100% effective. Since unvaccinated people are far more likely to catch vaccine preventable diseases, they are a threat to anyone who is susceptible to those diseases: people not protected by the vaccine, children too young to be vaccinated, and people who are immunocompromised. You have been told this repeatedly. Your "rather obvious conclusion" is in error.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
You can quote all the science you want because that it not my issue as an ADULT without young children. It is a TREATMENT you want or don't want; not the government and not the medical community's choice. Nuremberg codes. All the science in the world will not change my mind. If I say NO, I mean NO.

Herd Immunity? Greater Good? That ends with the individual who makes the determination of what is put into their own bodies, and their children's.

The USA is treading on very dangerous ground when it starts mandating medical treatment, which vaccinations are, for the "greater good". Pick up a history book if you do not know what I am talking about.
No one will force you to take a vaccine. Parents who do not wish to vaccinate their children will just have to make alternate arrangements for their education.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Not all vaccinated persons will carry pertussis. Unvaccinated people are far more likely to be infected and spread the disease. An unvaccinated child is 6 to 25 times more likely to become infected with pertussis than a vaccinated child.

Refuting another antivaccination lie about the pertussis vaccine

"There appears to be growing evidence that a small percentage of vaccinated children could be asymptomatic for the disease but still pass the infection to others. This does not mean that all vaccinated children are “carriers” of pertussis. In fact, symptomatic unvaccinated children are much better carriers of the disease."

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
Read the text of the article link below, then continue!

Public Health Officials Know: Recently Vaccinated Individuals Spread Disease[/url]

"I've read ....." ? Well guess what? I've had the measles, and mumps, and chickenpox, just like everyone else did when I was a kid. And contrary to the false narrative fear mongering BS that constantly flows from the vaccine industry, back in the day, it was NO BIG DEAL, and viewed as just an inevitable part of growing up. That's quite a contrast to the history rewrite that paints these childhood diseases as akin to the plague.

But the more important point that our ghoulish Orwellian authorities have twisted the truth into a prezzel, in an up=down lie about the danger posed by the unvaccinated. The REAL TRUTH is it is NOT the unvaccinated who pose the threat of disease spread ... it is the vaccinated who are the REAL danger. With all the propaganda demonizing those who wisely choose to avoid pumping poison into their children under the guise of good health practice, it's the well meaning but grossly misinformed who allow these live virus vaccines to be injected into their otherwise healthy children, making them little virus shedding machines that endanger everyone coming into contact with them for weeks afterward. I know that sounds totally crazy to those programmed by the endless lies from the medical establishment ... and yes I do mean deliberate lies such as "vaccines cannot cause disease or spread of disease". If that were actually true, why would those same authorities also warn immune compromised individuals to avoid contact with recently vaccinated people? What double think is this?

I'll tell you what this is .... an endless stream of lies and contradictions which renders many people so confuse, they just beg for someone (usually their trusted doctor) to pat them on the head, tell them it's alright, and assure them that things will be OK ... don't worry ... you're in good hands.

Of course ... the best thing to do is to utilize a bit of common sense, and block out the BS being funneled into their ears, and just ask yourself some really easy questions, like:

1) if vaccines are effective, then the vaccinated should have no fear of the unvaccinated. How can an unvaccinated person who has most likely not been exposed to a particular virus pose a threat to someone who is supposed to be protected by vaccination? That makes NO SENSE AT ALL. On the contrary, common sense would argue that the vaccinated person (injected with the live virus) has been deliberately and unquestionably exposed to the virus, and would therefore be the most likely source of threat to shed the virus, and expose others.

2) .... well let's just address #1 first .... it's really basic, and shouldn't be too difficult for those still possessing the capacity for rudimentary logic.
Shedding of vaccine viruses can happen, though it is not common. However, the weakened vaccine viruses are not likely to make anyone sick. Unvaccinated people are more likely to catch the wild viruses and give them to other people and make them sick.

Vaccines are not 100% effective. Since unvaccinated people are far more likely to catch vaccine preventable diseases, they are a threat to anyone who is susceptible to those diseases: people not protected by the vaccine, children too young to be vaccinated, and people who are immunocompromised. You have been told this repeatedly. Your "rather obvious conclusion" is in error.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Typhoid Mary mindset. Even if YOU yourself show no symptoms yourself, you still need to to get vaccinated because you could pass it on to other people. HOW? If you are not coughing or sneezing next to somebody, aka the flu. Breathing the same AIR? ROFL

How many people in the US have never had their adult Tdap, let alone flu shots? If they aren't sick, they can still pass these diseases on to everyone else? Sounds like an Advertising Campaign to to sell more vaccinations. Totally illogical.
People who are not vaccinated are more likely to get sick and pass the disease to others. Simple concept, really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
Aside the story just told, the proof is in the pudding. The per capita healthcare costs have reached astronomical proportions, so the idea that inexpensive prevention has been so successful is a complete load of crap, just like the "affordable healthcare act" was supposed to reduce costs.
If we did not have vaccines we would be spending even more than we do now.

Quote:
The Orwellian nonsense about childhood disease harming the immune system is equally hogwash, as prior to this latest propaganda, it was well understood that such disease was instrumental in the healthy development of our immune systems. In fact, there are growing numbers of legitimate researchers who suspect that the epidemic like increases in chronic diseases like diabetes, food allergies, autoimmune disease, etc., may be the consequence of vaccine intervention in this immune system building process, which may be exchanging infectious disease for life long chronic disease.
Please supply the evidence that supports this claim. The damage done by measles to the immune system can be demonstrated in the lab. There is no evidence that vaccines cause autoimmune diseases. Even the risk of Guillain Barre syndrome with flu vaccine is lower than the risk with flu infection.

Vaccines do not cause diabetes; However, in genetically susceptible children type 1 diabetes has now been shown to be related to a viral infection:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1022091721.htm

"The results from these studies clearly show that members of the group B coxsackieviruses are associated with the risk of type 1 diabetes while the 35 other enterovirus types tested did not show such a connection. These findings are in line with other recent reports suggesting that group B coxsackieviruses can spread to the pancreas and damage the insulin-producing cells.

This new discovery, funded by multiple groups, opens up novel possibilities for future research aimed at developing vaccines against these viruses to prevent type 1 diabetes. Since the group B coxsackieviruses includes only six enterovirus types it may be possible to include all of them in the same vaccine. Effective vaccines have been available for a long time against another enterovirus group, called polioviruses, which includes three enterovirus types."

Quote:
Like most other information coming out of the mainstream today, it really is Orwellian in the extreme. Case in point is the latest twist which urges pregnant mothers to take flu shots, in direct contradiction to decades of warnings in years past which urged the opposite.
Since flu in pregnancy can kill moms and babies, taking the vaccine is the wise thing to do.

Flu in pregnancy has been associated with an increased risk of autism:

Flu During Pregnancy May Be Linked to Autism Risk

"But having the flu during pregnancy was linked to a twofold increase in a woman’s chance of having a child diagnosed with an autism spectrum disorder before the age of 3.

Children whose mothers reported having a fever lasting for more than a week had a threefold increase in autism risk."

Flu in pregnancy is being associated with psychiatric disorders in children from affected pregnancies, including schizophrenia and bipolar disorder:

NIMH · Flu in Pregnancy May Quadruple Child

Having an infection that causes a fever is not good for the fetal brain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
NO MYTH ...Vaccinated do shed and spread disease.
Shedding vaccine virus is not the same as causing disease. Shed vaccine viruses, even if passsed to another person, seldom cause disease.

Quote:
You see, this is the type of double talk I constantly point to. One source claims one thing, and another claims the opposite. Sometimes, the doubletalk is so blatantly pathetic, like the measles vaccine information listing a high fever and rash as a possible side effect of the vaccine, while also stating that the vaccine cannot cause illness. Forget the fact that the primary symptoms of measles is high fever and rash. Same for the influenza vaccine side effects which can include muscle aches, fever, runny nose, congestion, while also stating that the vaccine can't give you the flu ... just similar symptoms, dontcha know.

It almost sounds like a comedy sketch ...but this is no laughing matter. The truth is, if you do your own research, you will find plenty of SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE which directly challenges the conclusions of the vaccine pushers. Funny, since it's the same scientific data they claim supports their conclusions. Psst ... they're lying.
Measles vaccine may cause fever and rash, but it does not cause the full blown symptoms that measles infection does. It does prevent the immune system damage that measles infection causes and also prevents the other complications of measles (one of which is death). Flu vaccines cannot cause flu. The injectable vaccine contains "dead" virus and cannot replicate in the human body. The nasal vaccine contains weakened virus that can replicate in the nose but dies if it gets into the lung, because it cannot survive the higher core body temperature. Any of the symptoms you describe with flu vaccine go away in a day or two. That is not true of flu infection. Anyone who really gets the flu soon after being vaccinated does so either because he was already exposed and the vaccine did not have time to work (it takes about two weeks to be effective) or he caught a strain not in the vaccine.

Please provide links to the scientific evidence that shows otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangokiwi View Post
They'll never admit it because of the monnnnaaaaaaayyyyyyy
We would spend more money treating vaccine preventable diseases than we spend on vaccines. We can pay for the vaccines or we can pay for visits to doctors offices, hospitalization (including ICU stays), treatment of long term complications (hearing loss, blindness, paralysis, mental handicaps), and lost wages from parents having to stay home with sick children or missing work because they are also ill.
 
Old 05-26-2015, 12:57 AM
 
3,182 posts, read 2,214,356 times
Reputation: 3544
www.westonaprice.org

As I said before all the bogus information that is coming from the Homeopathic community who are nothing more then Charlestons who used to sell heeling elixir in the 19th century. The internet has given them a way to spread lies and made up information they have caused lot of this fear to stop people from vaccinating their kids. I never even heard of anyone not getting their kids vaccinated back in the 60's and 70's after someone bogus autism link was spread around the internet now people believe that stuff. The guy who originally wrote it is now says he was wrong, but still people think what they read on the internet is always the truth.
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