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Old 05-12-2015, 07:45 AM
Location: Middle of the Pacific Ocean
11,450 posts, read 6,195,781 times
Reputation: 11282


OP, the Crown Prince is not an "underling," though the failure of the king to attend is certainly a snub in my view. An "underling" would be a lowly member of the royal family or an ambassador.
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Old 05-12-2015, 08:15 AM
11,946 posts, read 5,672,968 times
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Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
1. That's one interpretation of what occurred. It turns out that Saudi Arabia is rather preoccupied right now with a shooting war being waged in Yemen, a country on its borders. The head of the country may not feel comfortable leaving his nation at this time because of that war. He is sending a Crown Prince to meet with the President.
Wrong - a cease fire has been announced and humanitarian aid is being delivered. King Salman gives the excuse that he must stay and oversee Humanitarian aid. Google "obama snub" and there are a lot of articles around the world discussing the clear Snub.

2. Seriously, I question just how good a friend Saudi Arabia really is. Do they ever sell us oil at a discounted price? Is there some other economic advantage we get from being their "friends"? I largely see this relationship as "one-sided" where the USA supplies them high tech weapons and agrees to send our soldiers and use our blood to defend them in a shooting war. Yes, they are considered an historic ally of the USA. I am saying its time to re-evaluate just exactly what America is getting out of this relationship.
You have no clue at all about the relationship between the USA and the Gulf Coast Council Nations - no point in even attempting to explain any of it to you.

3. The Orange County Register is a conservative newspaper in a conservative county in California. Robert Welch, who founded the John Birch Society, is from Orange County. I don't expect such a newspaper to ever say much good about the President. Whoop-de-doo.
You didn't even read the article - it was published in the OC Register, but the byline is Helene Cooper of the New York Times.

4. The alternative to a deal with Iran is to do nothing, or worse launch a military attack on their nuclear installations. If we do the former, they almost certainly will build a bomb at some point. If we do the latter, we probably won't be able to wipe out all their nuclear facilities because some are underground. Once we take the military option, they will intensify their efforts to develop a nuclear device. An agreement with the Iranians that can be verified in some fashion is an imperfect solution to this problem, but probably the best alternative America has.
Why?Why?Why? do the Leftists insist that the only two choice are (1) A Deal with Iran, or (2) Bombing Iran?
That's nonsense. Economic Sanctions had brought Iran to it's knees and forced them to the table - the ONLY thing Iran cares about is getting money right now to fund all their Proxy Wars. They will continue their Nuclear Program with or without any "Obama Legacy DEAL". The Iranians play him like a Fiddle.

5. The USA is the major player in the world in terms of making things happen. This should never be confused with the notion that USA has total control of all players and all events in the world. We don't and never will have such control. The USA is strongest when it acts with its western allies such as Britain, Canada, France, and Germany. These talks have done much to bring the western countries together. If Iran acts in violation of the agreement it makes, it will stand alone against the entire world.
The USA used to be a "major player" -- now we are just perceived as weak under whatever the Obama Doctrine is. France won't go along with this new Iran Deal - the Gulf Coast Council held there Major Summit a couple of weeks ago and (for the first time in their history) invited the President of France to join them and speak ...... that was really "Snub #1". Kerry was immediately scrambled to go to KSA and then to a meeting in Paris for damage control.

6. I don't advocate we go along with any deal that the President chooses to make. What I do say is that we ought to at least be patient enough to wait for the specifics before become hysterical and unglued. Those who oppose this deal before they even know what's in it are illogical and irrational people who are unworthy of being listened too.
The players involved in this "deal" are pretty aware of what's going on. It's a new Alliance with Iran, while they toss everyone else under the bus. When 4 out of 6 Arab Leaders decide at the last minute to dump a White House Dinner meeting and then a Camp David Summit -- it has meaning. Consensus appears to be the Meetings are going to be worthless and Obama is just going to give them another one of his patented Lectures. Kerry met with the Saudis last Thursday - they led him to believe that King Salman would come to both the White House and Camp David. As soon as TeamObama announced the Dinner meeting ...... they pulled the rug out from under Obama and cancelled.

The GCC wants a Formal Signed Security Agreement with the USA - they won't get that.
The GCC wants more weapons & planes -- they will get some of that. Obama is experienced in pay-offs like that.
The GCC has operated for years with a "Gentleman's Agreement" with security for the area, they say that no longer works for them. The don't "trust" Obama. This is a big deal.

I have a lot of links to articles, but nobody bothers to read them - any you want, just say so.
It's beginning to look like the Major Sunni Nations are preparing for possible attacks against Damascus and Bashar al-Assad - they don't like Obama's support of Assad, which is an Iranian demand. IF that should happen - it will be both unprecedented and HUGE. I don't think they will do it without both Turkey and Egypt on board, but they are certainly all in 'talks' about it.
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Old 05-12-2015, 08:16 AM
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,355,317 times
Reputation: 27564
Obama wouldn't invade Syria like Saudi wanted so Saudi opened the spigots on oil and now snubs us.
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Old 05-12-2015, 08:45 AM
Location: Denver
3,184 posts, read 2,626,666 times
Reputation: 2218
Originally Posted by O.C. Ogilvy View Post
It would be helpful to know why you think in such a bizarre way.
Both countries actually have very neat young people from running across international students at college and its a shame that their countries governments are so stupid.

But the reason I said that is Iran used to be a pretty solid, more secular country until the shah came in and all that mess started. And their most recent president was the most secular of all the choices, so it shows you the direction the people want their country to head in.

Saudi Arabia is more entrenched in extreme Islam, in fact most of the extreme Islamic ideas and extremists come from Saudi Arabia (Bin Laden). And they don't have a democracy so the peoples voice won't really be reflected into the government, which is in bed with the extremist branch of Islam, the Wahhabis. Woodrow LI, the Islam forum moderator, said a lot of Muslims think Saudi Arabia is one of the worst things that happened to Islam, especially considering all the holy sites are in their country.

Here's an interesting article about Saudi Arabia: http://www.vox.com/2015/1/26/7877619...abia-questions
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Old 05-12-2015, 08:45 PM
Location: Aztlan
2,686 posts, read 1,411,782 times
Reputation: 1282
Originally Posted by triple8s View Post
The US doesn't "give" weapons to Saudi Arabia.
Of course not. Israel buys from us too, but their arms deals are sweetened by a whole lot of further aid.

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Old 05-12-2015, 09:29 PM
48,516 posts, read 83,738,755 times
Reputation: 18042
It just has more to do with them seeing US as not the ally they were as far a defense. More common around the world for good reasons if you listen to Joint Chiefs testimony on our capability compared to the gulf war days. Also reason we are being challenged for Ukrinne to middle east by many groups.
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Old 05-12-2015, 09:31 PM
364 posts, read 227,433 times
Reputation: 123
Good. I hoped it was a matter of time before SA was kicked to the curb.
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Old 05-12-2015, 09:38 PM
19,922 posts, read 11,066,080 times
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Originally Posted by Dhult View Post
They do one better. They struck a bargain to only sell oil in US dollars. If that ever changes they will find being friends with us just as palatable as Saddam.
In return for US military protection. That deal is what Took the US into the Gulf War and what eventually caused 9/11 because of American troops in Saudi Arabia to protect them from Saddam Hussein.

It was a deal with the devil. It is Saudi Arabia that supports Wahabi Islam, and it's Wahabi Islam out of Saudi Arabia that is "Terror Incorporated." Ask any other Muslim not infected by Wahabism, and they'll tell you the Saudi Wahabis are bat-guano crazy.

Those are the people committing all this international terrorism. Other Muslims may be radicals in their own backyards, but if they're in your yard, they're Saudi-funded Wahabis. And because of the Saudi oil money, their "outreach" program is well-funded all over the world. Muslim radicalization in US prisons? Thank the Saudis for that.

I'd rather be a Christian in Iran than Saudi Arabia.

I've been in a number of different countries in the Far East and South Asia. Some of them are suck places to live as places go, but the only culture I couldn't stand was Saudi Arabia (haven't visited the others on the peninsula). The US had no business putting troops there, and I don't know anyone else in the military who had been there who disagrees. It soiled us to be there.

The US is defending its own death angel.

Last edited by Ralph_Kirk; 05-12-2015 at 09:55 PM..
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Old 05-12-2015, 09:47 PM
Location: Florida
22,120 posts, read 9,405,113 times
Reputation: 18060
So now Obama gets criticized for pissing off a muslim country? All we've heard from the extreme right wing for the last 6 years is is how he kisses up to them--he's so afraid to offend them.

Where is Osama bin Laden from? I forget..Oh, and where were 15 of the 19 9/11 terrorist attackers from? And they treat women terribly.

The Saudis are miffed...And we should care why?

New allegations of Saudi involvement in 9/11 - CNNPolitics.com

Bush Admits ‘Majority’ of 9/11 Hijackers Were Saudis*Pensito Review
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Old 05-12-2015, 09:56 PM
3,274 posts, read 5,415,459 times
Reputation: 1018
Originally Posted by O.C. Ogilvy View Post
Good point. We actually give more weapons to the Israeli's, yet they fight us tooth and nail on the Palestine issue. Maybe we should divert some of that support to our friends on the Arabian Peninsula.
The funny part about what you're saying is that Israel and Saudi Arabi plus a few other countries are somewhat "warming up" to each other because of the Iranian deal, but Obama is considering a missile defense shield in the gulf states to protect against Iran BUT that also takes away from the Israeli deterrent that they need. It's such a pandora box right now to say the least. You never know what government may go down or stop being our "friend," a revolution in Jordan could happen, or even Saudi Arabia but then what? Do we allow the same to happen to them as we did in Iran or do we intervene to reinstall our pro-US government?
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