Why are people worth the minimum wage, and what are people doing about it? (unemployed, school)
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Burger flipping, as most other minimum wage jobs, is not supposed to be a career.
Is it harder today than when we did it?
Sure, but the concept is still the same and it's far from impossible. My nephew is doing the same thing I did in a similar field and he's damn good at it too.
But arbitrarily raising minimum wage just makes it harder for people to do what we did because it means that people trying to work their way from low wage (over minimum wage) positions are faced with a lifetime of one step up and two steps back because their buying power suffers every time minimum wage goes up but their pay doesn't.
So the person who worked hard and gets promoted and now makes 3.00/hr over minimum wage gets a 1.00/hr pay cut when minimum wage goes up by 1.00/hr.
There are people who for a number of reasons can't get a job other than flipping burgers, maybe that is the best job they will ever be able to do. But I respect them for getting up every day and going to work. If they stayed home on welfare you would criticize them for that, if they work for minimum wage you criticize them for that- what exactly does it take for a low wage worker to make you happy? Do they ever deserve a living wage in your opinion, or should they always live in poverty?
And raising the minimum wage has never caused inflation so it's very unlikely that it would now, but I have to give you credit for trying
While your $4.50 an hour comment is true, remember we are talking about the depression when minimum wage started.
The minimum wage in inflation adjusted dollars rose sharply from 1938 through 1968 topping out at $10.38. Since 1968 it has continued to drop with just a couple of spikes until 2009.
The problem with the "free market" determining it is that there is the possibility of collusion and in a bad economy the wage an employer is willing to pay would drop like a rock
The saddest thing about this is that throughout all this time only the extreme right wingers pi$$ed and moaned about an increase in the minimum wage. Now all the sudden after about 17 increases with little or no controversy pretty much the entire right is opposing an increase at this time. Their disdain for the minimum wage worker is almost getting to the same level as that of the welfare recipient.
It's not about disdain for minimum wage workers......or anyone for that matter.
It's about the disdain for the entire concept of wages being dictated by the government.
When I get a new job, I have to negotiate my salary to the highest level I can get based on the projected worth that my experience, knowledge and productivity will bring to my employer, and with the amount of my competitors vying for the same position.
Why should this concept be any different for an entry level position?
What makes a burger flipper exempt from what virtually everyone else must do?
It's not about disdain for minimum wage workers......or anyone for that matter.
It's about the disdain for the entire concept of wages being dictated by the government.
When I get a new job, I have to negotiate my salary to the highest level I can get based on the projected worth that my experience, knowledge and productivity will bring to my employer, and with the amount of my competitors vying for the same position.
Why should this concept be any different for an entry level position?
What makes a burger flipper exempt from what virtually everyone else must do?
Seriously..who does a fast food worker, or a retail employee negotiate with? Are you aware that there are standard pay rate tables for jobs run by corporations that set the pay at intervals, i.e. starting wage, 6 months, one year. In those jobs you can't go have a beer with the boss and talk your way into a better wage.
And thank God the government does have wage and hour standards or you would have people working 100 hours a week with no overtime and getting paid whatever the employer felt like paying come payday.
Burger flipping, as most other minimum wage jobs, is not supposed to be a career.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3
What? there is no law that states that.
Who said it's a law? .....It's just common sense.
If you're a physically and mentally competent person planning on making a career out of flipping burgers, your problem is not minimum wage......it's a lack of basic math and critical decision making skills.
If you're a physically and mentally competent person planning on making a career out of flipping burgers, your problem is not minimum wage......it's a lack of basic math and critical decision making skills.
So we have to live in poverty because we don't have the same goals in life as you?
There are people who for a number of reasons can't get a job other than flipping burgers, maybe that is the best job they will ever be able to do. But I respect them for getting up every day and going to work. If they stayed home on welfare you would criticize them for that, if they work for minimum wage you criticize them for that- what exactly does it take for a low wage worker to make you happy? Do they ever deserve a living wage in your opinion, or should they always live in poverty?
The percent of people that are not capable of more than minimum wage....ever....are a miniscule amount of the overall number of people making minimum wage.
I respect anyone who goes to work rather than collect public assistance and I have nothing against anyone making minimum wage, but that doesn't mean they should stay at a minimum wage job their whole life......and the vast majority don't....they move on to bigger and better things. So it's not a matter of making me happy.....it's a matter of making themselves happy. Because the economy does not function based on what people "deserve"
The whole meme about Conservatives hating minimum wage workers is a tired stereotype with no factual basis whatsoever.
Conservatives just know that there is no business model (outside of government) that allows a business owner to pay employees based on their needs rather than the value of their labor.....if that's hateful, then it's reality that is hateful, not conservatives for being honest about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy
And raising the minimum wage has never caused inflation so it's very unlikely that it would now, but I have to give you credit for trying
We've had this argument before and you lost that one too.
Any business owner, from the smallest to the largest will only stay profitable (and therefore be able to justify and sustain it's own existence) by passing on the costs of doing business to the consumers (among other things like cutting benefits)
And are you forgetting union's, whose wages are contractually tied to hikes in the minimum wage? So the cost of anything union made goes up to pay for it.
The percent of people that are not capable of more than minimum wage....ever....are a miniscule amount of the overall number of people making minimum wage.
I respect anyone who goes to work rather than collect public assistance and I have nothing against anyone making minimum wage, but that doesn't mean they should stay at a minimum wage job their whole life......and the vast majority don't....they move on to bigger and better things. So it's not a matter of making me happy.....it's a matter of making themselves happy. Because the economy does not function based on what people "deserve"
The whole meme about Conservatives hating minimum wage workers is a tired stereotype with no factual basis whatsoever.
Conservatives just know that there is no business model (outside of government) that allows a business owner to pay employees based on their needs rather than the value of their labor.....if that's hateful, then it's reality that is hateful, not conservatives for being honest about it.
We've had this argument before and you lost that one too.
Any business owner, from the smallest to the largest will only stay profitable (and therefore be able to justify and sustain it's own existence) by passing on the costs of doing business to the consumers (among other things like cutting benefits)
And are you forgetting union's, whose wages are contractually tied to hikes in the minimum wage? So the cost of anything union made goes up to pay for it.
Nice try though.
What is union made these days. And unions pay their employees more than minimum wage.
The percent of people that are not capable of more than minimum wage....ever....are a miniscule amount of the overall number of people making minimum wage.
I respect anyone who goes to work rather than collect public assistance and I have nothing against anyone making minimum wage, but that doesn't mean they should stay at a minimum wage job their whole life......and the vast majority don't....they move on to bigger and better things. So it's not a matter of making me happy.....it's a matter of making themselves happy. Because the economy does not function based on what people "deserve"
The whole meme about Conservatives hating minimum wage workers is a tired stereotype with no factual basis whatsoever.
Conservatives just know that there is no business model (outside of government) that allows a business owner to pay employees based on their needs rather than the value of their labor.....if that's hateful, then it's reality that is hateful, not conservatives for being honest about it.
We've had this argument before and you lost that one too.
Any business owner, from the smallest to the largest will only stay profitable (and therefore be able to justify and sustain it's own existence) by passing on the costs of doing business to the consumers (among other things like cutting benefits)
And are you forgetting union's, whose wages are contractually tied to hikes in the minimum wage? So the cost of anything union made goes up to pay for it.
Nice try though.
you haven't said anything here that you haven't said before so there's no use in responding, have a nice evening
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