Pew Research Center: Christianity declining, godlessness and other faiths rising. (Israeli, statistics)
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I very much agree with the bolded part. We are already seeing the "anything goes" behavior and it will only get worse as people reject faith.
Should I have "faith" in Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, etc.? If you took much of what people believe OUT of the realm of "religion," they would say, "Who could believe such nonsense?" But somehow if we call it "religion," then we just have to have "faith" that it is all true. Logic and reason disappear.
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Originally Posted by Omatic
The second part.. well sorry you had a bad experience. The Christian churches I have been to do so much for the community. Give food and water to those in need, hold fundraisers, build houses for disadvantaged people, help clean up from natural disasters, mission trips too. They do a lot.
And so do secular organizations. (And so do non-Christian religious organizations, for that matter.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omatic
You're so happy, huh? Glad that "evil" old book that guides you toward a better life won't be as important anyone, so now you can be as immoral and nasty as you want right?! I mean, why not? There will nobody telling you not to. And then the world becomes a free for all.
You seriously believe that it is only YOUR "old book" that keeps people from being immoral and nasty? Some (certainly not all) of the nastiest, meanest people I have known are those who consider themselves "religious Christians."
If it's only some "old book" that keeps you from being immoral and nasty, something is definitely wrong.
A PRC survey today shows a marked decline in Americans' preference for Christianity over the past few years, and how Americans seem to be leaving that faith and calling themselves "religiously unaffliated," or living in a state of irreligion.
I'm personally torn on the issue. I think Christianity and a strong religious faith provide parameters in which people individually, and society collectively, lead productive, healthy lives. I think a loss of faith will somewhat unmoor society and lead to "anything goes" behavior. On the flip side of that, virtually every organized Christian group I've been to fails to be welcoming, intellectual, or even charitable. Religion does itself no favors in my eyes.
I was raised Roman Catholic but I practice an Earth-based Goddess religion now. It seems like organized religion, anymore, is nothing but a "club" for people who are afraid to socialize in nightclubs and bars.
It seems like churches are just in-person "social networks" where people join to have a sense of community and to get each other jobs. The Mormons (LDS) are known for this, especially. It is really just cliquishness and a fear of the unfamiliar.
I left Catholicism, tried different sects of Protestantism for awhile, and saw how strange that was, so I gave up Christianity altogether. It seems like Christianity has become a battering ram for politics nowadays. You've got the extreme homophobic fundamentalists on the Right and the "Jesus was black" Social Justice Warrior freak-types on the Left.
I'm just fatigued with Christianity and the whole "Judeo-Christian-Islamic violent Abrahamic" thing to be honest.
And look what's happening to our country! We're turning into the U.K.
-The free sex movement from 50+ years ago has glorified hookup culture (thus leading to a rise in single mothers & STDs)
-People are selfish and more rude than ever
-Depression is on the rise
-People don't know how to date; therefore, they end up wasting time in relationships
-People dress like prostitutes
ETA: Even churches are corrupted because they're being led my un-Godly people. It's turning into a business.
You're so happy, huh? Glad that "evil" old book that guides you toward a better life won't be as important anyone, so now you can be as immoral and nasty as you want right?! I mean, why not? There will nobody telling you not to. And then the world becomes a free for all.
Are you really that immoral? Are you suggesting that without God breathing down your neck, without ancient Bronze Age morality to guide you, that you would suddenly start running around committing crimes and doing harm to others? Because your post says that about you - and the rest of us, unfortunately. I'm an atheist and I feel no desire to be an asshat. How about you?
I hear this all the time from Christians - that without the Bible, morality would disappear entirely because God isn't around to tell us all what to do, that we wouldn't be accountable for our actions.
That is a perfect example of why religion should NOT be the arbiter of morality. Our morality should exist for each other and we are still accountable to each other - all 6.4 billion of us. But religion teaches us that we need to be good to please God instead of being good for the sake of our neighbor. Religion puts God first instead of putting humanity first - and that means some insignificant Hebrew tribal God from 3,000 years ago is more important than the very real person, alive and breathing, sitting right next to you.
And that, my friends, is messed up.
If you know your Bible, than you should know that the primary contact God had with humanity was to kill them. God massacred humans willy-nilly with a death toll that pushes well past the 100 million mark. Most of those people were killed by God for doing little else than failing to be Hebrew or breaking some idiotic rule like working on the Sabbath (remember the guy who was killed for picking up sticks on the Sabbath?)
How could anyone consider themselves moral while worshiping the biggest megalomaniacal mass murderer who out-killed Hitler and Stalin by untold millions? A god who encouraged slavery and never made it a sin to have sex with children, a God who sent two bears to tear apart 42 children for doing nothing more than calling one of his prophets "old bald head." A God who told his followers to commit genocide against dozens of cities - be sure to kill everyone regardless of age or gender, kill all the animals, too, so that no living thing remains. Yeah, those were the orders.
I can't help but envision a soldier traipsing through Canaan, spitting little girls on the end of his spear while smashing the girls' pet kittens with his boot. That's the morality of Jehovah, of YHWH. And THAT is what you think will keep people in line?
The ONLY thing that keeps our society civil is our secular law. That's it. Not the Bible. Not religion. Not God. It is our secular law including the Constitution (for we Americans).
If religion disappeared tomorrow, nearly all of us would continue to obey the laws we've been obeying all of our lives. If our secular laws disappeared tomorrow, I would be running to the airport to get out of this country were I gay or an atheist - because some folks would be killing in the name of their God within hours.
So tell me again how religion is what keeps us in line. Go ahead, tell me.
The self esteem generation. The most worthless one ... but not because they aren't religious.
Lol - here we go again with that BS about "self esteem." Let me guess - you also hate "participation trophies," and honestly think those are handed out to everyone under a certain age.
As probably the eldest Millennial - a guy who just barely counts in that generation - let me fill you in on our realities.
1) Nobody "gave" us anything special that isn't unusual for any other generation. We had to work in school and get good grades or not get into college, same as everyone else. Except for us, no college = no future. Remember that "old mill" you probably went down to work at years ago? The one where you "got a job that day with just a strong handshake?" Yeah, it - and many others - closed years ago. Thanks.
2) Speaking of college, it is FAR more competitive for our generation than any previous one - no "self esteem" and "participation trophies" here. Oh, and it's also FAR more expensive, too.
3) Once we get done piling the student debt on to have a shot at a job that for the previous generation could be "earned" with just a handshake and connections, we get to enjoy NO job security, NO pensions, and VERY expensive healthcare, housing, and so on.
Long story short, the Millennial generation faces competition like no other before it, and the reward is hoping you can keep your job long enough - before it's outsourced - to pay off a few of those student loans.
Is it really any wonder that a generation that has been set behind before getting out of the gate is not interested in angry, old rich people who have no clue how the world works today telling them that "God loves some of you... maybe... but it's all still your fault, you whippersnappers!"
I very much agree with the bolded part. We are already seeing the "anything goes" behavior and it will only get worse as people reject faith.
Pffft...
Exactly what part of "anything goes" do you fear?
Let me guess - "those people." Oh, the horror - consenting adults doing something I don't approve of in the bedroom! And it's icky! With that logic, nobody would be allowed to have relations since everything is "icky" for somebody. What nutball excuse for a society grounds its morals on "I don't like it" therefore "it is wrong?" We may as well lock people up for locking the "wrong" flavor of ice-cream if we're going down that road.
Or, maybe it's "horror" of young couples "living in sin" because they don't have their union blessed by the church, state, or some other group that has contributed nothing to their relationship. Tell me again why those on the far right - the ones who supposedly hate authority and government - feel an obsessive need to stick the government into people's bedrooms and give stamps of approval to people's relationships? I know why - because it's all about hating "the government" right up until you can use it to bludgeon your views into the heads of others - but I'd love to see the official excuse.
There's no decline in morality among the common man. The Bronze Age holy book that is so worshiped is full of people killing, raping, pillaging, and committing all sorts of crimes that would land you in prison for life today - in our "less civilized" time - and all of it is supposedly excused because the survivors stamped "God told me to commit these atrocities" on their actions, using an excuse so flimsy that it wouldn't stand up remotely in court today.
In the end, Jesus told us to love each other. He didn't tell us to condemn each other, kill each other and then say "God told me to do it," or anything else. The only people I see spewing hate on a national level these days are the business leaders - who get a free pass from the far right - and the religious crazies. And that's why people - the young in particular who've been on the business end of all this - are leaving. If you don't like it, change.
A PRC survey today shows a marked decline in Americans' preference for Christianity over the past few years, and how Americans seem to be leaving that faith and calling themselves "religiously unaffliated," or living in a state of irreligion.
I'm personally torn on the issue. I think Christianity and a strong religious faith provide parameters in which people individually, and society collectively, lead productive, healthy lives. I think a loss of faith will somewhat unmoor society and lead to "anything goes" behavior. On the flip side of that, virtually every organized Christian group I've been to fails to be welcoming, intellectual, or even charitable. Religion does itself no favors in my eyes.
A whole lot of Americentrism being expressed there. The Body of Christ is not contained in the US, nor is it centered in the US, nor is the state of the Body in the US an indicator of its state anywhere else.
Ten years ago, I was predicting that China would have more committed (i.e., true) Christians than the US by 2025 at the rate their growing--but if Christianity is declining in the US, that might be true even by now. My own faith was revitalized by meeting and worshiping with fellow members of the Body in countries where "Christian" has never been the default and carries no social advantage...or even carries disadvantage.
Americans are consumed by numbers, even as much as scripture tells us that God disdains numbers. If the dross falls away in America, that's not a loss. But I work with youth, and I see He's doing something new with the Millennial generation. It just doesn't look like the old stuff that had been mostly social facade anyway.
Last edited by Ralph_Kirk; 05-13-2015 at 06:34 AM..
I think there's a difference between cultural Christians, people who identify based on family history and because its just the way they've always described themselves and actual practicing Christians. I'd imagine the number of those who are actually involved in their faith is significantly lower.
Agreed, maybe I run in the wrong circles, but none of my professed Christian friends, family and acquaintances (with two notable exceptions) go to church, other than maybe on major holidays.
Lol - here we go again with that BS about "self esteem." Let me guess - you also hate "participation trophies," and honestly think those are handed out to everyone under a certain age.
As probably the eldest Millennial - a guy who just barely counts in that generation - let me fill you in on our realities.
1) Nobody "gave" us anything special that isn't unusual for any other generation. We had to work in school and get good grades or not get into college, same as everyone else. Except for us, no college = no future. Remember that "old mill" you probably went down to work at years ago? The one where you "got a job that day with just a strong handshake?" Yeah, it - and many others - closed years ago. Thanks.
2) Speaking of college, it is FAR more competitive for our generation than any previous one - no "self esteem" and "participation trophies" here. Oh, and it's also FAR more expensive, too.
3) Once we get done piling the student debt on to have a shot at a job that for the previous generation could be "earned" with just a handshake and connections, we get to enjoy NO job security, NO pensions, and VERY expensive healthcare, housing, and so on.
Long story short, the Millennial generation faces competition like no other before it, and the reward is hoping you can keep your job long enough - before it's outsourced - to pay off a few of those student loans.
Is it really any wonder that a generation that has been set behind before getting out of the gate is not interested in angry, old rich people who have no clue how the world works today telling them that "God loves some of you... maybe... but it's all still your fault, you whippersnappers!"
The truth is every generation thinks that the one preceding them had it easier, and every generation thinks that the one after them are slackers and losers. That's been going on for hundreds of years, if not thousands. In fact, the cavemen used to club each other over heated arguments on the generational schism, while grunting like Mango.
#1. Hummm I see you may vacation but you dont travel much... #2. Organized Centers for learning have fooled people for a long time into thinking they need an Eduction from an actual School College or University
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Originally Posted by AFP
#1. Many people in Europe are religiously unaffiliated, agnostic, or athiest they seem to be doing just fine.
#2. Organized religons have fooled people for a long time into thinking they need church.
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