Pew Research Center: Christianity declining, godlessness and other faiths rising. (accuse, radical)

[personone]

People can live very moral lives without Christianity, and be really good people. For me personally though, my Christian/Catholic faith and my relationship with God has not only helped guided me morally (although I'm definitely not perfect) but it's also helped me through difficult times in life, and I lean on my faith all the time. Many don't believe and that's fine. I don't try to force my religion on anyone, but no matter what, I will always keep my faith and couldn't imagine my life without it.

[keepingquiet]

Originally Posted by Gantz

The OP didn't post the numbers from the survey, but the Christians of all denominations declined from 78% to 70%. It has to do with the fact that the older, more religious generations are dying off and are being replaced by millenials, who are the most non-religious generation in this country's history. Soon you'll see some of these megachurches profits being hit.

Not likely since most people who consider them selves christian don't go to church.

[Fletchman]

As someone who was raised Catholic and was fairly devout for many years, I don't think any of this is too surprising.

Americans don't live in ethnic neighborhoods anymore, where nearly everyone went to the same church. They work with and socialize with people from varied backgrounds and religious perspectives.

I am more skeptical of organized religion today. I don't really believe in a 'personal god' as such. Perhaps a very distant one. I think I tend to view myself as a secular humanist.

There are some positive aspects to organized religion but also very negative aspects.

[UsAll]

Originally Posted by PedroMartinez

We're also a lot more self-centered, materialistic and mean spirited than ever before, IMHO.

Sorry for the verbose posting here but this is not simply directed at your own particular comment but towards any other readers or commentators as well who express similar sentiments to yours (i.e, implying that lack-of-religious-belief and/or religious practice results in being, as you phrased it, "a lot more self-centered, materialistic and mean spirited":


Just saying this matter-of-factly and as dispassionately as I can and would have even said this (or at least after a certain point) during all the years that I was a Chrisitian believer, practiitioner, and churchgoer through my middle-aged adult years (as a conservative evangelical Protestant):


I've encountered a goodly number of those who deemed themselves as Christian (especially fellow churchgoers) as being all those things that you stated (i.e, self-centered, materialistic and mean-spirited . . . to varying degrees). But rather than using your particular choice of words, I'll try to be more descriptive using my own words:

1. I found so very many of my fellow Christians to be too often prone to being rather class-conscious (i.e., regarding one's socioeconomic class, educational class, where one ranks in the social pecknig order, et al) . . . which in various ways overlaps which what you phrased as being "materialistic". This often resulting in others outside their real or perceived class to be socially ostracized, set apart, made to feel unwelcome, and the like.

2. (Somewhat related to the above point): I found a goodly number of my fellow Christians over the course of time to be too often prone to being rather socially cliquish . . . which might be similar to what you phrased as being "mean-spirited". Rather than say "mean-spirited" about them across-the-board, I would rather use the more-applicable word "not consistently welcoming and embracing" (which could be deemed as "lacking in true Christian spirit"). Look, I don't say that every single person that I ever encounter in life-at-large or even in church becomes my instant best friend, buddy, confidante, lover, fellow socializer, and the like but I at least tried to exemplify sensitivity and empathy to another person's basic humanity and dignity and show them some degree of kindness as a Chrisitian believer . . . even if they were to whatever degrees unattractive, socially less-adept or even awkward, not from my own social class or background, not as intellectually-developed as myself, et al. If one as a Christian is really no different in a measurable, tangible way than the general population in the world outside of church and outside of the world of belief, then what distinguishes you from the rest of the human population at-large? What work has Christ done within you if this is how you are? Jesus said, when asked by one of his apostles "How do you know someone who is really of God?" or words to that effect -- and Jesus responded "I say to you: You will know them by their fruits" (in other words, the fruits of the spirit . . . that if the Holy Spirit is truly within you, you will find it in yourself to try to be affable and welcoming and looking to build bridges with others rather than to make a way-of-life out of setting other people apart from you and to stigmatize or ostracize them for simply not measuring up to your exacting standards or for not coming from your own real or perceived class.

Hence, despite the image of Christians being "welcoming" as a rule, I found this aspect to be a rather hit-or-miss proposition. For example, how many times did I myself send a friendly email or leave a friendly, well-meaning voice message for a host of them (including pastors, worship directors, bible study leaders, and a host of those who were simply fellow church attenders, those I was involved jointly in groups with, etc.) and not even getting a response or even a simple acknowledgement at all (even among those who would put on a Christian face for me when in my presence). AND YET so so many of them were very very willing to try to use me to do special favors for them, performing varied services for them, going out of my way for them, wanting all sorts of freebies from me, and the like. So I was "good enough" to fill that role for them but to not otherwise be part of their social milieu? I mean, if I myself truly didn't want to socialize with or know a particular individual (beyond that individual being a mere passing acquaintance), I wouldn't at the same time still be trying to use them just for my own personal benefit or to fulfill particular needs or wants of my own. And yet I found plenty plenty plenty of others who had no qualms about this practice. If you simply want me to serve you with addressing particular needs or wants of yours (e.g., fix your car, fix your computer, train you in how to do something, help you do a moving job) but don't otherwise want me in your social life or social inner circle, then simply pay me for it. That is, treat it as a simple business transaction and be done with it.

3. i found too many of my fellow Christians over the course of time were too often prone to exemplifying hypocrisy (i.e., lack of continuity and consistency between what one says and what one does or practices as a way-of-life). Too many spent more time standing over and speaking down to others and holding them to standards that they themselves didn't necessarily exemplify in this own lives as a standard practice. If they woud instead honestly examine themselves, they would find that they lack just as much (if not more) than those they look down upon, judge, or berate.

I could go on further but don't want to give all of you too much to read. I'll just conclude by saying that if one's life and practices as a Christian isn't consistently and measurably different from the general population over the course of time, then of what consequence is it to be a Christian at all (other than, based on their beliefs, saving their own rear ends from an undesired final outcome when they leave this life)? Being a religious adherent is simply not a predictable measure of one's moral compass or overall personal character and virtues. To think otherwise is to delude oneself and to propogate a lie. Yes, it is also true that there are even adherents of other religions besides Christianity and even those who are irreligious (whether atheist, agnostic, freethinker, secular humanist, and the like) who also exemplify preoccupation with social class and ranking, social cliquishness, being hypocrites, being self-centered (narcissistic), being mean-spirited, and the like. It is simply saying that "humans are humans" and we should all ideally try our best to manifest the best character qualities and behavioral practices as a way-of-life but we are or can all be prone to being at times lacking in this regard. It is just part of being human and the fact is that embracing some religion (such as Christianity in its multitudinous forms) cannot be found to be a predictor of one having a most-redeeeming and meritorious character. it simply isn't so. We are all human and hence will have our failings, shortcomings, hangups, lapses in character, and the like . . . whether one is a believer or a non-believer.

[heartfocus]

Regarding being shunned when one leaves the Christian faith, I had so many stories of losing friends and family because of it that I used to have a website (back when websites were free) that had a picture of each one, plus a little story about how I lost them. They just kept multiplying until I had no family or extended family or old classmate friends left. I did not push my lack of beliefs on them, but they did not want to be associated with me because I admitted to losing my faith. I'll bet a lot of people could relate to this experience. It's especially bad for a woman because women prize relationships so strongly, and that's why so few are outspoken atheists.

[Vector1]

Originally Posted by Emigrations

A PRC survey today shows a marked decline in Americans' preference for Christianity over the past few years, and how Americans seem to be leaving that faith and calling themselves "religiously unaffliated," or living in a state of irreligion.

I'm personally torn on the issue. I think Christianity and a strong religious faith provide parameters in which people individually, and society collectively, lead productive, healthy lives. I think a loss of faith will somewhat unmoor society and lead to "anything goes" behavior. On the flip side of that, virtually every organized Christian group I've been to fails to be welcoming, intellectual, or even charitable. Religion does itself no favors in my eyes.

I am a firm believer that more religion equals less crime. Granted religious people are by no means perfect, but active religious people tend to think twice before going against not only mans laws, but Gods.
Though the atheists activist will dispute this, much of our countries morals stem from Christianity.
Heck the atheists can not believe all they want, and still have their cake and eat it to by having society kept more in order due to all those who believe in fairy tales.

[heartfocus]

Originally Posted by Vector1

I am a firm believer that more religion equals less crime. Granted religious people are by no means perfect, but active religious people tend to think twice before going against not only mans laws, but Gods.
Though the atheists activist will dispute this, much of our countries morals stem from Christianity.
Heck the atheists can not believe all they want, and still have their cake and eat it to by having society kept more in order due to all those who believe in fairy tales.

Then why are 99% of prisoners in the U.S. christians?

[UsAll]

Originally Posted by Vector1

I am a firm believer that more religion equals less crime. Granted religious people are by no means perfect, but active religious people tend to think twice before going against not only mans laws, but Gods.
Though the atheists activist will dispute this, much of our countries morals stem from Christianity.
Heck the atheists can not believe all they want, and still have their cake and eat it to by having society kept more in order due to all those who believe in fairy tales.

Originally Posted by heartfocus

Then why are 99% of prisoners in the U.S. christians?

This is addressed to Vector1, though it is drawing upon the reponse quoted above to your posting made by Heartfocus:


Yes, I have read that research finding myself varied times over the years that Heartfocus stated (or rather, I read it being stated, more precisely, that the overwhelming majority of U.S. prisoners are religious believers of varied types . . . mostly Christian but also including Muslims and others). And this has been found over the decades in multiple different research studies. Hence, it would be reasonable to say that this contradicts the assumption or presumption that "more religious belief equals less crime". I can understand how people can assume such a proposition to be a given (even I would have been inclined to think so) and yet it doesn't bear out when, for example, you look at the overwhelming majority of U.S. prisoners being religious adherents (mostly "Christian" or whatever variety but also including other religious belief systems). And so many of these prisoners are guilty of the most heinous crimes, along with the more run-of-the-mill but still serious crimes.

[ElectroPlumber]

Originally Posted by Mahrie

I agree.

For years my signature line (in forums where they are permitted) was: I fear that when Christ returns, He will find little of Himself in Christianity.

I've been a missionary for forty-plus years but I despise the word 'Religious.' I just try to emulate our Lord Jesus Christ and spread good seeds wherever I can.

In keeping with the OP though; the Bible does say that in the last days 'The love of the greater number will cool off,' and that's what we're seeing.

I also like what St. Francis of Assisi said: 'Preach the Gospel daily; if necessary - use words.' (Which is why our ministry is called Without A Word International Ministries.)

LIVE IT! Eat it. Breathe it. BE it.

Shalom,


Mahrie.

Yeah, there is no better witness than a person who lives their faith by example without words. In countries were proselytizing is illegal, many people can still be reached by ministering to their medical and other needs without a single word being said about Christianity. The big secret is that people are attracted to inclusion and compassion which is exactly the opposite of what is preached today in fundamentalist churches. It is sad beyond words.

[=^..^=]

Originally Posted by Emigrations

A PRC survey today shows a marked decline in Americans' preference for Christianity over the past few years, and how Americans seem to be leaving that faith and calling themselves "religiously unaffliated," or living in a state of irreligion.

What region? Here in the bible belt everyone seems to be a churchgoer, not that they practice what they preach all the time.

I'm personally torn on the issue. I think Christianity and a strong religious faith provide parameters in which people individually, and society collectively, lead productive, healthy lives. I think a loss of faith will somewhat unmoor society and lead to "anything goes" behavior.

Isn't that more or less how it is now?

On the flip side of that, virtually every organized Christian group I've been to fails to be welcoming, intellectual, or even charitable. Religion does itself no favors in my eyes.

Which is why I gave up on church and Christianity a long time ago.