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Old 05-12-2015, 06:10 PM
 
78,129 posts, read 33,293,784 times
Reputation: 15612

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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcopolo View Post
Trade lets us get more for everything we produce, and pay less for everything we consume. It is a path to higher standards of living both in America and around the world. Obama for once in his career came down on the side of prosperity, but the pro-poverty wing of the Democrat party is sabotaging him. It is a sad day.
There is nothing wrong with trade or trade deals. There is with trade deals done without any transparency.
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Old 05-12-2015, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Gone
25,235 posts, read 14,006,737 times
Reputation: 5916
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio1803 View Post
Agree, the two parties are pro-intervention (war), continue to destroy constitutional civil liberties at home, and are more beholden to big donors than We the People. Maybe this election people will not vote for the D or R, but for third parties, or independents.
Nope the Big Two will ensure they do not stand a chance of making any impact. Gonna take a Huge grass roots movement by The People to change the system, and as we know far too many will simply follow their masters or just are not interested, that is until it effects them, when it is too late. Nope there is no doubt now, we as we are now are doomed as a Nation, only thing to wait for now is for the shooting to start, only a matter of time, oh well at least I am ready for that scenario.
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Old 05-12-2015, 06:51 PM
 
39,146 posts, read 20,266,805 times
Reputation: 12700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
What? Granting amnesty to millions of illegal aliens isn't throwing American workers under the bus? It's mostly the Democrats that are pushing that.
But.. but.. but liberal media is telling them that it isn't.
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Old 05-12-2015, 07:55 PM
 
Location: Currently living in Reddit
5,655 posts, read 5,682,531 times
Reputation: 7280
I don't know what's in the entirety of the bill - and apparently no one else does either - but there is at least some wording that directly benefits companies like Monsanto and Dow.

1. ISDS (Investor State Dispute Settlement). There is wording to the effect of: “corporations could rise to the level of nations and be empowered to sue governments directly over environmental protections that they claim might hurt their profits.” Basically, this means that if a city, state or country passed an environmental, labor or consumer safety protection law (e.g. a ban on fracking or restrictions on chemical or pesticide use), all a multinational corporation has to do is sue under the Investor State Dispute Settlement (ISDS) provision to regain lost profits.

This is basically giving carte blanche for corporations to overwrite democratically written laws in independent nations and allowing multinational corporations to sue nations if they believe a law passed by their elected officials potentially harms or limits corporate profits. Seems to be a license to pollute, overfish, drill, clearcut or whatever - not to mention eliminating any chance of keeping GMOs out of everything (and no labeling, either).

There is also wording that all countries must implement trade measures "based on risk assessments that take into account relevant international guidelines and scientific data, and are not more restrictive on trade than necessary to meet the intended purpose.” The question is who decides which international guidelines and scientific data are safe and accurate? Odds are very good it will be corporate lobbyists, not the scientific community. Of course, as this is all secret, nobody knows, but the big chemical, pharma and energy companies are all for Fast Track passage.

And apparently, on page 9 of this thing, it states: (ii) unjustified trade restrictions or commercial requirements, such as labeling, that affect new technologies, including biotechnology. Which means no GMO labeling, ever. And no labeling that a product does not contain GMOs, either.

Gotta love our democracy.
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Old 05-12-2015, 10:40 PM
 
792 posts, read 516,288 times
Reputation: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcopolo View Post
Trade lets us get more for everything we produce, and pay less for everything we consume. It is a path to higher standards of living both in America and around the world. Obama for once in his career came down on the side of prosperity, but the pro-poverty wing of the Democrat party is sabotaging him. It is a sad day.
Just like NAFTA right? Oh wait...........
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Old 05-12-2015, 10:45 PM
 
17,027 posts, read 9,526,696 times
Reputation: 5701
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
We can't, nor can the people voting to fast track it. The presidents office has been arguing that it will be posted online for 60 days after he signs it, and before the congress and senate vote.

Its a horrible deal from the leaks that have occurred. The fact that so many republicans back it shows who they represent, Ditto for the Dems who have voted to fast track it as well.


We've heard that before, just have never seen it.
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Old 05-12-2015, 11:59 PM
 
Location: Alaska
6,342 posts, read 4,358,631 times
Reputation: 3765
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
We can't, nor can the people voting to fast track it. The presidents office has been arguing that it will be posted online for 60 days after he signs it, and before the congress and senate vote.

Its a horrible deal from the leaks that have occurred. The fact that so many republicans back it shows who they represent, Ditto for the Dems who have voted to fast track it as well.
My problem is and always has been why shouldn't we be able to see it and provide input befor its signed? This guy has a history of being a pathalogical liar. That is a proven fact and can't be disputed. With that said why should anyone "trust" him to make the right decision? It is another fact the blue collar Americans will loose jobs yet he acts as if this won't happen. I'm not sure if his personality disorder is so bad that he actually believes what he is telling Americans or he's lied so much the lines between reality and fantasy are so blurred he can't tell the difference. If it's such a great deal let ALL stakeholders look at the proposal. Keeping it hidden only flames the fire of distrust further.
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Old 05-13-2015, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Gone
25,235 posts, read 14,006,737 times
Reputation: 5916
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossfire600 View Post
My problem is and always has been why shouldn't we be able to see it and provide input befor its signed? This guy has a history of being a pathalogical liar. That is a proven fact and can't be disputed. With that said why should anyone "trust" him to make the right decision? It is another fact the blue collar Americans will loose jobs yet he acts as if this won't happen. I'm not sure if his personality disorder is so bad that he actually believes what he is telling Americans or he's lied so much the lines between reality and fantasy are so blurred he can't tell the difference. If it's such a great deal let ALL stakeholders look at the proposal. Keeping it hidden only flames the fire of distrust further.
True, but does it make you distrust the many Repubs also supporting it? Don't be selective in your outrage, place blame in all the places it applies not just those you are against ideology wise.
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Old 05-13-2015, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Tulare County, Ca
1,159 posts, read 717,075 times
Reputation: 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
Is there still a lock down on what’s in this bill?
Yes, it is still classified. Senator Barbara Boxer is developing hemorrhoids over it. Video at the link.

Top Democratic Senator (Barbara Boxer) Blasts Obama's TPP Secrecy
firstlook.org ^
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Old 05-13-2015, 04:59 PM
 
51,700 posts, read 41,630,049 times
Reputation: 32283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossfire600 View Post
....Obama's trade bill. As usual conservatives are throwing workers under the bus in favor of big corporations.
Disowning Obama as a conservative now because you can't handle the truth that the reps and cons don't give a crap about union workers and off-shoring jobs?

I will bet you've voted like a sheep for someone that has signed NAFTA in every presidential (ticket) election for over a decade now.

Kerry, Biden, Clinton.....all supported NAFTA.

You've been had.

The saddest thing? You're going to keep voting for people that do this to American workers, just as long as they have a (D) in their name.

You really have no right to complain, you are part of the problem.
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