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Old 05-14-2015, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Taos NM
5,342 posts, read 5,079,808 times
Reputation: 6751

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Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
That is an interesting take, I don't agree with it, but it is different.
But the thing you have to realize is that before modern medicine most all severe special needs kids died. Since we have modern medicine, we can extend life but... I mean, do you wait for the child to be born, and then watch if it dies or not???

I think the decision is made best before birth and not after.

 
Old 05-14-2015, 05:18 PM
 
10,196 posts, read 6,267,801 times
Reputation: 11268
[quote=Phil P;39618166]But the thing you have to realize is that before modern medicine most all severe special needs kids died. Since we have modern medicine, we can extend life but... I mean, do you wait for the child to be born, and then watch if it dies or not???

I think the decision is made best before birth and not after.[/QUOTE

Precisely. I have worked with MR/DD adults for years. Whereas decades ago, many with severe physical and mental disabilities would die young, today with modern medicine they are living into their 40s and 50s. That means that their parents, IF they did not give them up as babies (as many DID), would be in their 60s and 70s when they reach that age. For severely physically and mentally disabled middle aged adults, how can you expect their parents in their own old age to take care of them? They go into STATE institutions and group homes because they require round the clock care. That requires $$$$$ from the GOVERNMENT, which far too many Right to Life people only see little tiny babies, not middle aged adults. Again, many, many of these severely physically and mentally disabled people will never be able to take care of themselves.

Just listen to Rick Santorum. His daughter, Bella, is not on the low end spectrum, but he says HE is going broke taking care of her, and he isn't 60 years old yet. Imagine parents of far lower income means in their old age?

If you take away choice of the parents in this matter, are you willing to put your GOVERNMENT money where you MOUTH is to take care of them their entire lives?????
 
Old 05-14-2015, 05:57 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,792,238 times
Reputation: 6509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil P View Post
But the thing you have to realize is that before modern medicine most all severe special needs kids died. Since we have modern medicine, we can extend life but... I mean, do you wait for the child to be born, and then watch if it dies or not???

I think the decision is made best before birth and not after.
That is why I said I support abortion at any time for serious birth defects and small limits on abortion for healthy children after 22ish weeks, before that is fair game with counseling/short waiting period.
 
Old 05-14-2015, 06:11 PM
 
29,443 posts, read 19,532,681 times
Reputation: 4509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Carbonni View Post
I oppose this on bodily autonomy grounds.

I believe that since a woman owns her own body that it is her right to end her pregnancy at any time she chooses since the fetus is entirely dependent on her body for survival.
So you support abortion even at 9 months?
 
Old 05-14-2015, 07:26 PM
 
Location: Taos NM
5,342 posts, read 5,079,808 times
Reputation: 6751
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
That is why I said I support abortion at any time for serious birth defects and small limits on abortion for healthy children after 22ish weeks, before that is fair game with counseling/short waiting period.
ok, that's fair.
 
Old 05-14-2015, 07:55 PM
 
Location: Kansas
25,756 posts, read 21,911,331 times
Reputation: 26371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas View Post
Wrong the brain has not developed enough at that point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Carbonni View Post
Actually premature babies at 24 weeks have only about a 50% survival rate and that is with intensive medical care.

A fetus at 20 weeks has a less than 10% survival rate.
If you had a chance of a 10% survival, would you pass that up and choose to die or would you want the care to be denied to you by someone else that decided you weren't worth the effort to keep you alive? The baby starts to move in the 4th month and having carried one, I can tell you that he was very much alive and moving independently and I cannot imagine taking that life away. I could never advocate taking away the life of another person.

Neonatology Professor: Unborn Babies Feel Pain at 20 Weeks | LifeNews.com

I would totally ban abortion if it were up to me. We have a son with Down syndrome and I have read more than once of women who were told that the test said they were carrying a baby with Down syndrome and they did not want to abort and delivered babies that did not have Down syndrome, so much for tests to eliminate "defective" babies. So, chances are those "defective" babies maybe just weren't.

I don't know, we put people on life support all the time and no one, well no one I know, thinks we should just cut them loose since they are not self-sustaining.
 
Old 05-14-2015, 08:06 PM
 
Location: The analog world
17,077 posts, read 13,305,319 times
Reputation: 22904
I would not wish to be kept on life support given little chance of recovery (i.e, brain death), and I have been very clear about that with all members of my family. I aborted a pregnancy affected by anencephaly. There was no mistaken diagnosis, and I have no regrets. Sadness, yes, but no regrets.
 
Old 05-14-2015, 08:27 PM
 
Location: Rural Wisconsin
19,634 posts, read 9,159,653 times
Reputation: 37987
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
I would not wish to be kept on life support given little chance of recovery (i.e, brain death), and I have been very clear about that with all members of my family. I aborted a pregnancy affected by anencephaly. There was no mistaken diagnosis, and I have no regrets. Sadness, yes, but no regrets.
Good for you, and I mean that very sincerely. Too bad that so many people are so closed minded that they apparently have no capacity for sympathy.
 
Old 05-14-2015, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Rural Wisconsin
19,634 posts, read 9,159,653 times
Reputation: 37987
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse View Post
If you had a chance of a 10% survival, would you pass that up and choose to die or would you want the care to be denied to you by someone else that decided you weren't worth the effort to keep you alive? The baby starts to move in the 4th month and having carried one, I can tell you that he was very much alive and moving independently and I cannot imagine taking that life away. I could never advocate taking away the life of another person.

Neonatology Professor: Unborn Babies Feel Pain at 20 Weeks | LifeNews.com

I would totally ban abortion if it were up to me. We have a son with Down syndrome and I have read more than once of women who were told that the test said they were carrying a baby with Down syndrome and they did not want to abort and delivered babies that did not have Down syndrome, so much for tests to eliminate "defective" babies. So, chances are those "defective" babies maybe just weren't.

I don't know, we put people on life support all the time and no one, well no one I know, thinks we should just cut them loose since they are not self-sustaining.
Yes, I would choose to die if I had even less than a 75% chance of a life that I could enjoy at all.

I realize that I do not speak for anyone besides myself, but I think that anyone who presumes to always know what is best for everyone in every case is just plain wrong.

However, I do admire you for so obviously caring for and loving your son.
 
Old 05-14-2015, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,764 posts, read 26,048,855 times
Reputation: 33891
The only abortions it will stop are those that poor women get. When I was young abortion was against the law, and the girls who had wealthy families and got pregnant disappeared for 3 days and came back not pregnant, the poor girls went to a 'home for unwed mothers' or quit school and stayed home and had the kid. It will still work like that, anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.
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