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It was a team effort. Buch invaded Iraq, which was the most colossally stupid thing Bush did on a long list of stupid things he did, and Obama pulled out, which was a stupid move because Iraq had been in a perpetual state of instability ever since Saddam had been in power.
Say what you will about Saddam, he was good leader. Iraq had been a moderate nation during his rule and he was well liked by his people, except for a minority of people who did not like him; but that minority ended up supporting or becoming ISIS. Saddam was protecting the rest of the world. His motives may have been unconventional and he refused to adopt the US dollar (which is the only reason we invaded; don't fool yourself into thinking it was a moral crusade), but he was keeping Iraq stable and the Middle East safe.
The vast majority of our military action so far in the 21 century has been nothing but foolish. I wouldn't place ALL of the blame on the two executive powers, since they do have to listen to advisors and such, but all the same, everything our military did in Iraq was bad. Since we like to think in terms of good and evil, we were the evil. We did this to the Middle East. We made the world worse than it was before.
1. one of the great things about being a person with a general awareness of history I can see words that are full of ____. here is a fact about the "stupidness" of Bushs invasion of Iraq. the VAST majority of both republicans and democrats (including Hillary) VOTE FOR THE INVASION
The difference is that the republicans, once committed recognized the need to stay long enough to get to security (PS WE ARE STILL IN GERMANY AND JAPAN).
Democrats however, upon smelling electoral victories abandoned sound policy, sought instead to abandon reality. BUSH LIED PEOPLE DIED and now we have left Iraq and idiot moron college kids think George Bush created ISIS....why? because they like democrats don't care about learning the lessons of history...democrats for political reasons idiot college kids because they are idiots being edumacated by evil prog-activist-professors.
2. Saddam was a good leader? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU HE HAD RAPE ROOMS!!!!RAPE ROOMS DUDE!!!! The "good leader" in fact would take the innocent daughters of people who spoke out against him, put them in a room with a mirror, put the poor girls parents on the other side of the window then have his men go in and rape the girl repeatedly THAT IS HIS FREAKING LEADERSHIP.
This is the 100% truth. I have written as much repeatedly.
Before the war in Iraq, there was a debate about the effects of destroying Iraq.
The opponents against invading Iraq and the supporters of the invasion made some predictions about the state of the world after we destroyed Iraq.
The opponents of the war predicted that Iraq would sink into civil war or sectarian violence and we wouldn't be able to control it. That prediction was right.
The opponents of the war predicted that Iran would gain a lot of power as a result of the invasion of Iraq. That prediction was right.
The opponents of the war predicted that you would destabilize the Middle East in particular that area of the Middle East. That prediction was right.
The opponents of the war predicted that we would draw a bunch of radical elements into Iraq, which would spawn all kinds of terrorist groups in Iraq where none existed. That prediction was right.
Those who cheered for us to destroy Iraq, conservatives were wrong about everything. I mean wrong about everything they predicted. Yet, they are still running their fat mouths about the Middle East after being disastrously wrong and Yes the invasion in Iraq did lead directly to the creation of Isil.
Yet conservatives have learned nothing after being so wrong about everything in Iraq.
No. not its not.
Iraq sank because barak left.
that's a fact and you are so very s m r t you don't even realize in your brilliance that its 1919 all over again.
geez. you should give yourself an honorary phd for being so s m r t
Means to stop the slaughter and persecution of tens of thousands for starters
And we were making progress in the battle with the insurgents post-surge (which Obama didn't support). Give me a damn break.
I know....it's always "we were making progress."
Problem is, we weren't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd
wrong. the panty waisters forced the loss. period. end of story. you are wrong. history has spoken.
I have two uncles who are babyboomers and served in Vietnam. they are great men who sacrificed a lot. they were and are not the cowards their generation is so full of. Not all were idiot spoiled cowards but enough were to cause America to walk away.
You don't know what the hell went on.
We lost. Give the Vietnamese their due and stop making lame excuses.
We lost because we got our asses kicked.
The end.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd
...in fact at the end of WW2. we did "stick it out.... both in Europe and Japan. kinda worked out well.
I served in Desert Storm. been there done that got the medal buddy. I ask nothing I have not proven I am willing to do myself.
Germany and Japan were defeated. Iraq wasn't a victory. In fact, I don't know what the hell it was.
This is the 100% truth. I have written as much repeatedly.
Before the war in Iraq, there was a debate about the effects of destroying Iraq.
The opponents against invading Iraq and the supporters of the invasion made some predictions about the state of the world after we destroyed Iraq.
The opponents of the war predicted that Iraq would sink into civil war or sectarian violence and we wouldn't be able to control it. That prediction was right.
The opponents of the war predicted that Iran would gain a lot of power as a result of the invasion of Iraq. That prediction was right.
The opponents of the war predicted that you would destabilize the Middle East in particular that area of the Middle East. That prediction was right.
The opponents of the war predicted that we would draw a bunch of radical elements into Iraq, which would spawn all kinds of terrorist groups in Iraq where none existed. That prediction was right.
Those who cheered for us to destroy Iraq, conservatives were wrong about everything. I mean wrong about everything they predicted. Yet, they are still running their fat mouths about the Middle East after being disastrously wrong and Yes the invasion in Iraq did lead directly to the creation of Isil.
Yet conservatives have learned nothing after being so wrong about everything in Iraq.
Given that a significant chunk of libertarians and conservatives opposed going, that means that only a small fraction of liberals/Democrats opposed the war when it mattered, which was BEFORE we went. Instead they supported the war going in, and then when things went sour, pulled their support as they saw an opportunity to make partisan hay against Bush and the Republicans.
Given that a significant chunk of libertarians and conservatives opposed going, that means that only a small fraction of liberals/Democrats opposed the war when it mattered, which was BEFORE we went. Instead they supported the war going in, and then when things went sour, pulled their support as they saw an opportunity to make partisan hay against Bush and the Republicans.
Right-wingers desperately want to erase Bush from existence, but it's not going to happen. He spent months selling the Iraq invasion to Congress and the American people but... it's everyone else's fault for the predictably disastrous results.
that's a fact and you are so very s m r t you don't even realize in your brilliance that its 1919 all over again.
geez. you should give yourself an honorary phd for being so s m r t
No Iraq sank because we couldn't stop the sectarian violence from when we first invaded Iraq.
The conservative solution was to just stay in Iraq forever.
This was untenable and stupid thinking just like the initial decision to invade Iraq.
GWBush had every incentive to get us out of Iraq.
Remember they said we'd be out of there in a few months. Yet it dragged on for years. Why?
It's because we couldn't stop the sectarian violence, we couldn't control all the radicals who were drawn to Iraq, which spawned ISIL.
Again, history will show that the people who cheered us into the Iraq war were wrong about everything.
And the opponents of the war were right.
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