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Old 05-16-2015, 12:38 PM
 
10,468 posts, read 3,946,632 times
Reputation: 5127

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
They're going to lose because the top schools factor in a whole lot more that SAT scores....which they definitely should. I don't view someone that has spent 4-5 years prepping for the SAT to get a 1600 or so as being a better candidate than someone with a slightly lower score.

However, it IS an interesting bias complaint and under the sheer stupidity that is disparate impact theory which is often the crux of the claim for people like Sharpton, they have a case.
Racism is wrong, regardless of what your skin color is. Affirmative action is racism and so is this. Case closed.

I hope this goes all the way to the Supreme Court and Harvard loses.
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Old 05-16-2015, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Inland Northwest
1,793 posts, read 1,142,335 times
Reputation: 1845
It's even worse for Medical School admissions. What a joke.
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Old 05-17-2015, 07:52 AM
 
Location: University City, Philadelphia
22,592 posts, read 12,290,965 times
Reputation: 15486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trace21230 View Post
Good for them. I hope the next step is to sue liberals who support or enact affirmative action. Reparations from liberals to Asians and maybe even whites could be an appropriate solution.
Oh myyyyy ...

What an intelligent comment!

Why yes ... sue liberals!

All liberals? Asian liberals? Everyone who is registered Democrat? Everyone who isn't prejudiced against LGBT people? Everyone who belongs to a union? Everyone who are into environmentalism?

Please enlighten me: how do we go about suing liberals?
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Old 05-17-2015, 08:36 AM
 
21,287 posts, read 11,520,139 times
Reputation: 12158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
The coalition cited research from a 2009 book co-authored by Thomas Espenshade, an economist and senior scholar at the office of Population Research at Princeton University.

If all other credentials are equal, Asian-Americans need to score 140 points more than whites, 270 points higher than Hispanics, and 450 points above African-Americans out of a maximum 1,600 on the math and reading SAT to have the same chance of admission to a private college, the book found.

Harvard Faces Admissions Bias Complaint From Asian-Americans - Bloomberg Business
This is the best, most legit lawsuit filed in history. What they are fighting against is the oppression and outright tyranny of the liberal left and their agenda.

This is America where the smartest, most organized and most CIVILIZED should be rewarded. The Asians are better parents, better students and better citizens than most, including many whites. If they are the best, they should be rewarded.

I have two Vietnamese neighbors now and I tell you, they are the best thing to happen to this neighborhood in a long time. Great people.
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Old 05-17-2015, 11:13 AM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,735,783 times
Reputation: 5419
So the right is insisting that geographic diversity is a liberal plot? That is the primary mechanism that discriminates against both Asians and Jews.

So preferences to alumni families are to be disallowed?

Amazing how the Right turns liberal when the desired Ox is gored...And the right wants the courts to interpret laws to solve a problem in private institutions?
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Old 05-17-2015, 12:09 PM
 
3,262 posts, read 2,990,081 times
Reputation: 1893
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
So the right is insisting that geographic diversity is a liberal plot? That is the primary mechanism that discriminates against both Asians and Jews.

So preferences to alumni families are to be disallowed?

Amazing how the Right turns liberal when the desired Ox is gored...And the right wants the courts to interpret laws to solve a problem in private institutions?
Civil rights laws should protect people of every race from racial discrimination. Full stop.

If there was sufficient evidence that a college was implementing geographic diversity policies with the intended purpose of excluding Asians and/or Jews, then yes, that should incur the full force of the law against it.

If there was sufficient evidence that a college was implementing alumni preferences with the intended purpose of altering the racial makeup of their admitted students, then yes, that should incur the full force of the law against it.

Proving discriminatory intent isn't always the easiest thing, but where it can be done then yes, the courts should step in.
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Old 05-17-2015, 12:33 PM
 
Location: NJ/NY
10,765 posts, read 10,127,636 times
Reputation: 7619
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
There we go. The antisemitic rises to the bait.

Years ago my sister went to Bronx High School of Science. My mother ended up President of the PTA one year.

It was always understood that the two groups which were heavily limited by the Ivy League were Jews and Orientals...that was on top of the standard bias against too many bright kids from New York.

So all good schools have to deal with the question...how diverse do you want to be? If very diverse you end up limiting both Jews and Orientals who otherwise would virtually dominate all the major institutions. Check out Berkeley or UCLA if you want to see it in action.

In general the thinking at Bronx was don't go there if you could not break the top 5%. Far better to be the number one or two are a less stringent school.
The difference between Jew's and Asians is that many colleges don't even ask what religion you are, and the ones that do have a "decline to state" option. So unless your name is particularly Jewish, they have no way of really knowing. Asians don't have that luxury. There is no way of escaping your photograph, plus, Asian names are definitely more distinct than many Jewish names. Plus, there is a box for race. A Jewish person naturally puts "white" while an Asian will put "Asian".
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Old 05-17-2015, 01:02 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,300 posts, read 7,932,113 times
Reputation: 6464
I guess being Asian isn't the right kind of minority.
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Old 05-17-2015, 03:02 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,735,783 times
Reputation: 5419
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALackOfCreativity View Post
Civil rights laws should protect people of every race from racial discrimination. Full stop.

If there was sufficient evidence that a college was implementing geographic diversity policies with the intended purpose of excluding Asians and/or Jews, then yes, that should incur the full force of the law against it.

If there was sufficient evidence that a college was implementing alumni preferences with the intended purpose of altering the racial makeup of their admitted students, then yes, that should incur the full force of the law against it.

Proving discriminatory intent isn't always the easiest thing, but where it can be done then yes, the courts should step in.
So you are under the impression that admittance to college should always go to the brightest? No more football scholarships or specials for the kids of alumni or even college staff?

No more top 2 kids from every high school?

Discriminating against Jews and Asians is simple. Simply require geographic distribution. Of course you don't do it for racial or ethnic reasons. You do it to reflect the population of the entire country.

What I find interesting is that you apparently would restrict college admission to the highest achievers on tests. While I would think that a base line to attend college is reasonable I would think you are proposing to discriminate against all who are not brilliant in taking of tests. That would of course heavily favor Jews and Asians and discriminate against virtually all other ethnic groups including white gentiles.

Note that talent comes in many guise including some not easily tested.

So summarizing you oppose policies that may disfavor Jews and Asians and support ones that favor them?

I would also point out that the demographics of college attendees at the Ivy League shows bias against Jews past all reasonable doubt. They did it and it worked. Now what?
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Old 05-17-2015, 03:15 PM
 
3,262 posts, read 2,990,081 times
Reputation: 1893
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
So you are under the impression that admittance to college should always go to the brightest? No more football scholarships or specials for the kids of alumni or even college staff?

No more top 2 kids from every high school?

Discriminating against Jews and Asians is simple. Simply require geographic distribution. Of course you don't do it for racial or ethnic reasons. You do it to reflect the population of the entire country.

What I find interesting is that you apparently would restrict college admission to the highest achievers on tests. While I would think that a base line to attend college is reasonable I would think you are proposing to discriminate against all who are not brilliant in taking of tests. That would of course heavily favor Jews and Asians and discriminate against virtually all other ethnic groups including white gentiles.

Note that talent comes in many guise including some not easily tested.

So summarizing you oppose policies that may disfavor Jews and Asians and support ones that favor them?

I would also point out that the demographics of college attendees at the Ivy League shows bias against Jews past all reasonable doubt. They did it and it worked. Now what?
Admittance policies that are based on the intent of racial discrimination are a form of racism. Where that intent can be proven, the full hammer of the law should come down.

If universities want to have geographic distribution admittance requirements, that should be allowed .... until and unless it comes out it's intentionally being used as a backdoor for racial discrimination, in which case no.

Same for legacies. Same for sports. Same for non-quantitative academic standards. I agree with some of it in some contexts and disagree with some of it in others, but it shouldn't be up to the courts -- unless and until someone can demonstrate that the goal was racial discrimination; then it should be.

There is something very simple here which goes to bedrock moral and legal principles: American institutions shouldn't be allowed to practice racial discrimination. Discriminating on the basis of race is a form of racial discrimination (duh, and sad that it needs to be said). Policies with a disproportionate impact may or may not be a form of racial discrimination, with the key component being intent. If the intent is racial discrimination, and that can be proven in a court of law, all remedies should apply.
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