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Old 05-17-2015, 04:54 PM
 
5,086 posts, read 2,461,261 times
Reputation: 4639

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinguina View Post
What part of "but this is not an excuse" escapes you? You know, the part of her speech that OP's link cuts off because it doesn't fit their agenda. Please go and watch the next 2 or so minutes after OP's link cuts off. The precise point of that segment of her speech is yes, this has happened and is likely to keep happening, BUT none of this is an excuse; you have to be a functioning member of society and build up your community like everyone else.

I get that some people have a problem with her alluding to the fact that racism exists at all, and that's fine I guess - there's been discussion on that and whether it's appropriate for the First Lady to bring this up. But the point of her speech, unlike what the OP and others are trying to imply, is not that black people are being brought down and are going to have to dodge "racist bullets" for the rest of their lives. It's that none. of. this. is. an. excuse.
I had no idea that she said that. I haven't listened to the entire roughly 30 minutes speech (she doesn't interest me enough). Off the top of your head, was it roughly a third, two third in? I am interested in hearing what she said next. Having all the facts is extremely important when making decisions.

Was she setting the stage for saying "I can identify with you" and then advocating the high road?
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Old 05-17-2015, 05:05 PM
 
86 posts, read 65,043 times
Reputation: 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke View Post
I had no idea that she said that. I haven't listened to the entire roughly 30 minutes speech (she doesn't interest me enough). Off the top of your head, was it roughly a third, two third in? I am interested in hearing what she said next. Having all the facts is extremely important when making decisions.

Was she setting the stage for saying "I can identify with you" and then advocating the high road?
Here is the relevant text, where the video cuts off:

But, graduates, today, I want to be very clear that those feelings are not an excuse to just throw up our hands and give up. (Applause.) Not an excuse. They are not an excuse to lose hope. To succumb to feelings of despair and anger only means that in the end, we lose.

But hereís the thing -- our history provides us with a better story, a better blueprint for how we can win. It teaches us that when we pull ourselves out of those lowest emotional depths, and we channel our frustrations into studying and organizing and banding together -- then we can build ourselves and our communities up. We can take on those deep-rooted problems, and together -- together -- we can overcome anything that stands in our way.

The rest of the speech in text format is here: https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press...cement-address

Another noteworthy segment that comes right afterward:

And the first thing we have to do is vote. (Applause.) Hey, no, not just once in a while. Not just when my husband or somebody you like is on the ballot. But in every election at every level, all of the time. (Applause.) Because here is the truth -- if you want to have a say in your community, if you truly want the power to control your own destiny, then youíve got to be involved. You got to be at the table. Youíve got to vote, vote, vote, vote. Thatís it; that's the way we move forward. Thatís how we make progress for ourselves and for our country.

This makes it pretty clear that her agenda isn't to just benefit black people or to create some sort of racial rift. She wants the graduates to make independent decisions not based on race but based on what they believe is right or wrong.
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Old 05-17-2015, 05:07 PM
 
11,034 posts, read 8,450,675 times
Reputation: 27755
Quote:
Originally Posted by wpme View Post
I heard nothing wrong with this speech, nor do I feel it was in any way divisive. All in all she probably should give more speech's, and hopefully the black community listens and pulls its collective head out of its posterior.

I'm white with a dark tan if it matters.
Exactly. I don't know why it's hard for some people to realize:

1. The past did happen.
2. There is current racism
3. The experience of Black people in America is different than the experience of white people or Latinos, Asians, etc.
4. This type of speech has been spoken among all different ethnic groups.
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Old 05-17-2015, 05:14 PM
 
5,086 posts, read 2,461,261 times
Reputation: 4639
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinguina View Post
Here is the relevant text, where the video cuts off:

But, graduates, today, I want to be very clear that those feelings are not an excuse to just throw up our hands and give up. (Applause.) Not an excuse. They are not an excuse to lose hope. To succumb to feelings of despair and anger only means that in the end, we lose.

But here’s the thing -- our history provides us with a better story, a better blueprint for how we can win. It teaches us that when we pull ourselves out of those lowest emotional depths, and we channel our frustrations into studying and organizing and banding together -- then we can build ourselves and our communities up. We can take on those deep-rooted problems, and together -- together -- we can overcome anything that stands in our way.

The rest of the speech in text format is here: https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press...cement-address

Another noteworthy segment that comes right afterward:

And the first thing we have to do is vote. (Applause.) Hey, no, not just once in a while. Not just when my husband or somebody you like is on the ballot. But in every election at every level, all of the time. (Applause.) Because here is the truth -- if you want to have a say in your community, if you truly want the power to control your own destiny, then you’ve got to be involved. You got to be at the table. You’ve got to vote, vote, vote, vote. That’s it; that's the way we move forward. That’s how we make progress for ourselves and for our country.

This makes it pretty clear that her agenda isn't to just benefit black people or to create some sort of racial rift. She wants the graduates to make independent decisions not based on race but based on what they believe is right or wrong.
Exactly. Women face unjust treatment on a daily basis. The are often paid less than a man that does the same job in spite of action to reverse this trend, in North America they have had the right to vote for less than 100 years, the are objectified, they have fewer educational opportunities (eg: the move to ensure equal female representation in law and engineering), and they take the high road. They work hard, they achieve, they over-achieve, they half kill themselves to do it all ... but they do not vandalize or cause violence in the action to be perceived as an equal to men (except when it comes to opening doors; men are obviously stronger by nature). Innately, women are equal to men ... sometimes smarter, more logical, more capable of problem solving and analysing, sometimes not. Regardless, the fact that they are physically weaker should not result in fewer opportunities in life.

Similarly, people with black skin should get past their cultured anger and start building the future for their children.
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Old 05-17-2015, 05:17 PM
 
11,758 posts, read 5,524,838 times
Reputation: 7964
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinguina View Post
Youíve got to vote, vote, vote, vote.
It's matter of time before someone less blessed would claim that Michelle was advocating voter fraud, voting four (4) times per person.

Mick
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Old 05-17-2015, 05:19 PM
 
Location: The analog world
17,087 posts, read 9,802,637 times
Reputation: 22736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke View Post
I had no idea that she said that. I haven't listened to the entire roughly 30 minutes speech (she doesn't interest me enough). Off the top of your head, was it roughly a third, two third in? I am interested in hearing what she said next. Having all the facts is extremely important when making decisions.

Was she setting the stage for saying "I can identify with you" and then advocating the high road?
Let me get this straight: she doesn't interest you enough to read the speech, which someone kindly linked to on the very first page, but she does interest you enough to make FIFTEEN posts to this thread, which you fully admit were made in ignorance of the facts? Fascinating!
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Old 05-17-2015, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Los Awesome, CA
8,520 posts, read 4,988,765 times
Reputation: 3304
Quote:
Originally Posted by StreetLegal View Post
I am a white guy and I liked her speech just fine. Seemed very appropriate for the audience/college graduates she was speaking to.

One thing I don't get about some conservatives. They are very quick to criticize governments/political systems with limited freedom of expression ("red" China, Chavez's Venezuela, Iran, etc.). Yet when people exercise that right in the USA and say something critical about the U.S. they are accused of being divisive or not patriotic.

As for the YouTube link in the OP, total garbage: It calls the First Lady's speech "racist hate" but the only racist hate I saw was from the creator of the video. What the f$%k does the black murder rate have to do with a speech by the first lady to college graduates.
Excellent post! I noticed the exact same thing..
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Old 05-17-2015, 05:40 PM
 
5,086 posts, read 2,461,261 times
Reputation: 4639
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
Let me get this straight: she doesn't interest you enough to read the speech, which someone kindly linked to on the very first page, but she does interest you enough to make FIFTEEN posts to this thread, which you fully admit were made in ignorance of the facts? Fascinating!
That's right, Michelle's words are of no interest to me. She is married to a man that was elected to presidency, but it's quite possible that he liked her ass, and that's why he married her. Men are like that.

That she had the right ass, or whatever, for Obama, is not sufficient for me to listen to the words that come out of her mouth. I am not ignorant of the facts. That I have not sought other facts is ... well, it's not expected in this sort of discussion, is it.

Out of curiosity, was she speaking to a black skinned audience? I noticed the man sitting in the chair to her left was nodding and speaking while she was talking about being "treated like the help", and thought that was rather inappropriate ... as in, that's not normal at a convocation ceremony. Everyone in the audience, and especially the people on the stage, are expected to remain silent during a convocation speech.

Are there places in the US where students with the wrong colour of skin are not accepted, or where people with black skin are preferred ... like a "black" college? I've been wondering that throughout this discussion ... is this a "black" college, and what the heck is a "black" college? If that isn't racist, nothing is.

I'm not ignorant of the facts (except whether this school is a remnant of racist time). The link to the video in question is posted in the first link, and I have watched that. That video is the subject of discussion.
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Old 05-17-2015, 05:42 PM
 
5,086 posts, read 2,461,261 times
Reputation: 4639
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
Exactly. I don't know why it's hard for some people to realize:

1. The past did happen.
2. There is current racism
3. The experience of Black people in America is different than the experience of white people or Latinos, Asians, etc.
4. This type of speech has been spoken among all different ethnic groups.
Of course the past happened. The choice we have today is whether we're going to focus on the past and try to milk it for a personal benefit, or whether we will look to a better future. The media version of the contemporary experience of people with black skin in the US seems to be one of violence and vandalism ... at least from the outside looking in. It seems to be a permanent focus on "payback". People on the outside looking in cannot understand why there are so many stupid people in the US ... perhaps it starts in the home, with a complaint about being perceived as "the help" when asked to lend a helping hand.
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Old 05-17-2015, 05:54 PM
 
1,136 posts, read 727,985 times
Reputation: 1641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
For those of you who have heard it, I would assume most would feel the way I do. That being that not only was it beneath the First Lady of the United States to make such a divisive speech, but that she herself seems to be full of resentment (maybe even hatred). That in and of itself is a worthy topic for discussion.
However, while not discouraging such a discussion in this thread, I want to also focus on something else that is troubling in this country. Let me explain.

I consider myself a fair minded person who is willing to listen to the other side of an issue provided it is based on fact rather than emotion. By and large I need to know that emotion is not a deciding factor that cause fact and pragmatic action to be subverted.
When I hear a speech by the First Lady and it strikes me in the manner it did, I assume most other reasoned people would feel similarly. So it surprised me to be watching a report on the show "Today" where a black female reporter characterized the speech in a completely different way, almost praising it.
Granted being a white man I do not know what it is like to be a black woman, but how could we have heard that speech so differently

This was the First Lady, yet she sounded almost like a female version of the race merchant Al Sharpton(though not as bombastic). She made it seem as if she has held grievances (real and perceived) and that she has a massive chip on her shoulder.
Sure she has made some similar comments along the way, but I have tried to give her the benefit of the doubt. Now I am not so sure.
For example feeling it was a slight or racially motived when a fellow shopper asked her to reach up and get something off a store shelf that was high. Michelle Obama is after all a tall woman, so it would seem perfectly natural for a shorter person to ask a taller person for assistance. With me being 6'7", I am regularly asked for such favors/help, and I don't think anything of it. I guess if I were to think about it, my assumption is that being tall is the reason. She instead apparently defaults to race as the reason.

The point of discussion I am getting at is that aside from the partisan koolaid drinking supporters of the Obama's, how can people see that speech in any type of a positive light?
Are we so polarized as a nation now that what I perceive to be a poor example of our countries First Lady's speech, can be seen by others as something positive?
Is it related to race, in that 6+ years of racial animus stirred up by Barak/Holder/Sharpton has caused black people to see things strictly through a lens of grievance?

I have not had the chance to discuss this with my black or liberal friends yet, so I wanted see what my fellow CD posters think of the this.

[YT]8NwrFDDQ12I[/YT]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NwrFDDQ12I

PS - It would be interesting to know the race/gender of the posters if you so choose.

TIA

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You answered your own question multiple times. You disregard emotion in this conversation. Since this an emotionally charged subject for black people you will never understand. Since you view it as virtuous not to bring emotion into this conversation it would be beneath you to understand.
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