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Old 05-16-2015, 01:57 PM
 
9,371 posts, read 4,299,786 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
You're not so much asking for opinions as trying to push yours. You asked our opinion on THIS speech, (the Current Event, appropriate) and when we held opinions you didn't approve of or that didn't align with yours, you expanded the topic from this speech by pulling out things from her past that have nothing to do with this speech but instead are intended to foster a more global debate on whether she's a racist (not a Current Event and inappropriate here) Is the topic about THIS speech, or isn't it? If it's not, take it to politics like the other Angry White Men do.
As the OP, how about you worry about the topic or related subjects which can encompass examples, rather than trying to play moderator to say this thread might be better suited to another section. There are plenty of threads with topics that are much better suited to another section, but because they are current, they remain here.

As to your comment about angry white men, I am surprised more white men do not object to all the forces aligning against them. Regardless of that, I do not perceive Michelle's speech to be against white men so much as helping to reinforce a belief that blacks in this country will perpetually face discrimination regardless of what they achieve in life.
To me that is exactly the wrong message to send. So had she limited her speech to just the other things she talked about, it would not have hit me in a bad way. Overall she did touch upon positive things that could be said to any graduates, regardless of the color of their skin, or their gender.
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Old 05-16-2015, 01:58 PM
 
Location: P.C.F
1,973 posts, read 1,647,173 times
Reputation: 1607
How do you think The CBO comes to its conclusions? By Narratives or Mathmatical Formula's??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
The funny thing about criticism of FOX is that it implies they are like the National Enquirer and just make things up. You Finally Figured that out?
Did it even dawn on you or others who do not watch it, that other stations choose not to report on things negative about the (D's)? So you feel not to cover an event is the same as making up an event there by, lying about someone or ones or an event?? Did Mom never say if you cannot say something nice say nothing at all?
It doesn't mean things are not happening, like the Gruber story the main stations ignored for weeks until Pelosi finally made a comment about him and she was caught in a lie about not knowing who he was. Up until that point in time, most everyone who did not watch FOX were weeks behind in seeing the videos. Yet this guy admitted how Obamacare had to be cloaked in a false narrative to get it past the CBO scoring, otherwise it never would have passed scrutiny. Don't you think something like that was news worthy?


As to your question, in my OP I mentioned that I saw a show called "Today", which I think is on one of the big 3 (CBS, NBC, or ABC,,,not sure which).
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Old 05-16-2015, 02:05 PM
 
3,723 posts, read 4,595,495 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretzelogik View Post
If she thinks things are bad here why not emigrate back to Africa?
Probably because she was never there.
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Old 05-16-2015, 02:10 PM
 
9,371 posts, read 4,299,786 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepenthe View Post
What a way to start a thread. Why would you assume "most" would feel the way you do?

This has not been my experience when you've posted in other threads I was a part of.

Anyway, the speech was okay, a couple things maybe were questionable but overall I didn't have at all the same visceral reaction you seem to have had.
There are some things that my view lands in the minority. However as a born & bred American in a center right nation, my view aligns with a majority of people on a majority of topics.

The OJ Simpson verdict is but a comparative analogy on how most people of all races felt, with the exception of what the media portrayed as most black Americans thinking it was the correct verdict.

As to other threads, my view is typically not emotion based, and is pragmatic based on facts rather than emotion. We may disagree politically (not sure s your ID does stand out to me one way or the other), but I rarely rant and rave based on illogical emotion.

Maybe I just expect an old school ideal of the way a president & First Lady should conduct themselves. I think Michelle has done some good things and taken on some worthy causes (i.e. nutrition and fitness for kids). However despite being black herself, I'd hope she would think of herself not in a racial context. Yet it would seem that is not the case when different things like part of this speech was revealed.
As another poster pointed out, you could not have another First Lady make the same types of comments in reverse and not have the liberals come out of the woodwork. Frankly I'd feel the same way if they did, as commencement speeches should not be divisive, especially coming from the First Family.
Maybe I am just too old school.
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Old 05-16-2015, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Keller, TX
5,663 posts, read 5,178,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
...I am surprised more white men do not object to all the forces aligning against them...
This post gets to the root of the modern Republican conservative mind. Fear. Fear that the world is out to get you. That "forces are aligning against you."

Further reading:

Conservatives Big on Fear, Brain Study Finds
Conservatives Feel World is Dark and Unsafe
Unconscious Reactions Separate Liberals and Conservatives
Scientists Are Beginning to Figure Out Why Conservatives Are... Conservative
GOP Voters Have Larger Fear Centers in Brain, Are Susceptible To ‘Psychological Authoritarianism’
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Old 05-16-2015, 02:14 PM
 
9,371 posts, read 4,299,786 times
Reputation: 11053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macgregorsailor51 View Post
How do you think The CBO comes to its conclusions? By Narratives or Mathmatical Formula's??
Ask Gruber


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G790p0LcgbI
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Old 05-16-2015, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
22,591 posts, read 24,185,920 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post

Maybe I just expect an old school ideal of the way a president & First Lady should conduct themselves. I think Michelle has done some good things and taken on some worthy causes (i.e. nutrition and fitness for kids). However despite being black herself, I'd hope she would think of herself not in a racial context. Yet it would seem that is not the case when different things like part of this speech was revealed.
As another poster pointed out, you could not have another First Lady make the same types of comments in reverse and not have the liberals come out of the woodwork. Frankly I'd feel the same way if they did, as commencement speeches should not be divisive, especially coming from the First Family.
Maybe I am just too old school.
How was it divisive, though? Michelle Obama, an educated black woman, was speaking to an audience of mostly, if not entirely, black people at a historically black university. I think it's naïve of you, a white man, to think that her "racial context" isn't something that she isn't reminded of every day, and it's something that she shared with her audience for that speech. When you (general you) are of the majority and you can assume that people like you are the majority and hold the same opinions and experiences, it can be difficult to understand what that is like. Had she been giving a speech to a small Midwestern liberal arts college or to a military academy, she would have targeted her speech to the audience in the same way.

Last edited by fleetiebelle; 05-16-2015 at 02:51 PM..
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Old 05-16-2015, 02:27 PM
 
7,969 posts, read 18,098,030 times
Reputation: 2597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretzelogik View Post
If she thinks things are bad here why not emigrate back to Africa?
Hmmm...perhaps because she never came from Africa?
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Old 05-16-2015, 02:35 PM
 
9,371 posts, read 4,299,786 times
Reputation: 11053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepenthe View Post
This post gets to the root of the modern Republican conservative mind. Fear. Fear that the world is out to get you. That "forces are aligning against you."
Maybe my phase could have been put in a different fashion, but the thought behind it is accurate. Michelle Obama talks of racism/discrimination in her speech which some of those kids might not have experienced. Still I assume some have (real & perceived).
Well guess what, as a white male not guilty of ever being a racist or the ancestor of slave owners, I have been discriminated against because of my race and gender via affirmative action.
Yet if I were a prominent enough person to be asked to give a commencement speech to a predominately white male college (say West Point), I certainly would not include how those white males were going face discrimination like I did. Much less if I were the POTUS.
Is affirmative action currently a fact today? Yes
Is it discriminatory based on race & gender? Yes
However, I would not feel compelled to include it in any part of the speech.

Also, lets not play dumb. If all sorts of groups are allowed to form and lobby based on race/gender (i.e. minority groups and women's groups), the only people left out are white males. So if the interests of minorities and women are promoted, that has to be at the expense of white males (i.e. educational opportunities, job hiring & promotion, etc.).
No group like the black police officers association is going to work for white officers interests, because their focus is based on their own race. Frankly I do not see how we allow such groups to exist, but if we do, then it should be fair for whites to have the same ability to look out for their interests as well, without being labeled racists as a result.
Yet when we have the First Lady telling kids to expect to be victims of racism, that is not an inclusive/positive message in my view.

So I am left to wonder if those who are plentiful in this thread think it was a great speech, are they meaning overall, but didn't care for the parts I and others have objected to?
Or is it more akin to what Javacoffee pointed out that targeted to this specific audience, it is appropriate, but not to a more diverse audience?


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Old 05-16-2015, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Suffolk, Va
3,029 posts, read 2,119,454 times
Reputation: 1961
The Fox news/rush Limbaugh crowd wants to have their cake and eat it too. They want to say the most disgusting, racist, evil things about the First Lady, but claim it is undignified for her to call them out. I'm glad that most Americans quickly saw through the rights faux outrage over the Mrs. Obama's speech. It looks like this has become Bengazi-esque for a handful of extremists
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