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Old 05-18-2015, 12:23 PM
 
Location: The analog world
17,087 posts, read 9,802,637 times
Reputation: 22736

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Is that 40% combined Defined Benefit and Defined Contribution plans? I should have been more specific earlier.
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Old 05-18-2015, 12:37 PM
 
Location: USA
13,266 posts, read 10,364,471 times
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Unleash the Bears (someone will get that).



We need a different brand of entrepreneurs. And we need to make sure those greedy old people don't get a dime since they are responsible for the current state of the economy through decisions or ignorance.
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Old 05-18-2015, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Florida
62,647 posts, read 34,157,952 times
Reputation: 10400
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
Is that 40% combined Defined Benefit and Defined Contribution plans? I should have been more specific earlier.
Defined benefit plans only. Contribution plans were up from 8 to 31% in the same time period, although people were not putting much money into them
Quote:
The percentage of workers covered by a traditional defined benefit (DB) pension plan that pays a lifetime annuity, often based on years of service and final salary, has been steadily declining over the past 25 years. From 1980 through 2008, the proportion of private wage and salary workers participating in DB pension plans fell from 38 percent to 20 percent (Bureau of Labor Statistics 2008; Department of Labor 2002). In contrast, the percentage of workers covered by a defined contribution (DC) pension plan—that is, an investment account established and often subsidized by employers, but owned and controlled by employees—has been increasing over time. From 1980 through 2008, the proportion of private wage and salary workers participating in only DC pension plans increased from 8 percent to 31 percent (Bureau of Labor Statistics 2008; Department of Labor 2002)

The Disappearing Defined Benefit Pension and Its Potential Impact on the Retirement Incomes of Baby Boomers

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 05-18-2015 at 01:32 PM..
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Old 05-18-2015, 12:59 PM
 
Location: The analog world
17,087 posts, read 9,802,637 times
Reputation: 22736
I'd like to see that graph from 1980 to 2008. In 1980, there weren't any Xers in the workforce. We hit in the late '80s, well into the transition. When I landed my first professional position in 1990 straight out of college, there were DC plans, but the DB plans were history.
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Old 05-18-2015, 01:23 PM
 
102 posts, read 86,014 times
Reputation: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidRudisha View Post
The upcoming generation is living paycheck-to-paycheck, as the number of good jobs keeps finishing and the cost of living keeps rising. Does this process have any chance of being reversed?
No. It's a Done Deal. Get used to it. It will get worse.

Jobs follow investment.

Hundreds of billions, if not trillions, of dollars have been taken from the US economy over the past 4 decades and invested in Asia.

Two hundred years ago, England was the world's industrial super-power.
A hundred years ago, the world bankers, who owned that industry, moved their investment to North America. Billions were invested in US manufacturing.

Starting in the 70s, the capital owners started the process of moving manufacturing to Asia. Just as England never did, and never will regain the strength and power it once had, neither will the US. It happened earlier to The Netherlands, and even earlier to Rome.

In the 80s, the world planners were developing standards, getting the Asian infrastructure ready. The trade agreements of the 90s removed the tarriffs, and destroyed local competition in the target countries.

If you were reading the Asian financial press at the time, you would see dozens of articles *every day* listing another American manufacturer's announcement to open factories in Asia. The Carlyle Group, made up of, among others, Reagan and Bush and their minions, as well as British and Philippine policy makers, had announcements every week of more investment of dollars in Asia. The US Navy held conferences on how to invest in various Asia countries - which were the most corrupt, the best educated, had the best returns, etc.

By the 2000s, those factories were coming on line, and jobs started really disappearing, although it had been happening since the 70s, when Japanese manufacturing overtook American electronics and almost took down Detroit. One of the things Clinton did was to stop gathering and announcing the closure of large businesses, who were laying off thousands, tens of thousands of workers.

Another thing Clinton did was spend millions of US taxpayer money to build an international high-speed broad-band cable between the US and India, so American computer companies could spend billions of dollars building up the Indian software industry, moving jobs to India, meanwhile shutting down US computer training centers and laying off millions of US programmers.

No. It's not going to get better.

Look at the way workers in Italy, Mexico, Singapore live, and take pointers on how to live on poverty wages.

I was lobbying my Senators, my congressman, even the speaker of the House of my state, who was from my district and giving out tax incentives to local software firms who were refusing to disclose their employment statistics back in the late 90s, early 2000s. They all knew what was going on. They were hoping that people wouldn't catch on until it was too late.

It looks like their plans worked.

People still don't get it. They think things are going to get better. Things are going to get worse. This TPPA bill that Obama is pushing through will further seal our fate, and most people just can't bother to even learn about it, much less hold their Senators and Congressperson's feet to the fire when they vote for it. Which they will.

It's a Done Deal. Get used to it.
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Old 05-18-2015, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Florida
62,647 posts, read 34,157,952 times
Reputation: 10400
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
I'd like to see that graph from 1980 to 2008. In 1980, there weren't any Xers in the workforce. We hit in the late '80s, well into the transition. When I landed my first professional position in 1990 straight out of college, there were DC plans, but the DB plans were history.
I stated in 1990 and pensions plans were very much in the picture. We also had 401Ks. 401Ks started in late 1970s. My last pension plan was eliminated in 2004. I worked in software industry and I never worked for a company which did NOT offer pensions until they started disappearing in that sector around 2000.
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Old 05-18-2015, 01:40 PM
 
Location: The analog world
17,087 posts, read 9,802,637 times
Reputation: 22736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I stated in 1990 and pensions plans were very much in the picture. We also had 401Ks. 401Ks started in late 1970s. My last pension plan was eliminated in 2004. I worked in software industry and I never worked for a company which did NOT offer pensions until they started disappearing in that sector around 2000.
Interesting. Same industry, but different experiences. Thanks for the enlightening dialogue.
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Old 05-18-2015, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,311,213 times
Reputation: 27564
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
I'd like to see that graph from 1980 to 2008. In 1980, there weren't any Xers in the workforce. We hit in the late '80s, well into the transition. When I landed my first professional position in 1990 straight out of college, there were DC plans, but the DB plans were history.
In 1990 the 401K was still just entering the workforce. There were only 97,000 401K plans in 1990.

Here's a good read on it:

http://www.ebri.org/pdf/publications...0205fact.a.pdf
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Old 05-18-2015, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
32,980 posts, read 19,952,237 times
Reputation: 12880
Quote:
Originally Posted by MargaretBartley View Post
No. It's a Done Deal. Get used to it. It will get worse.

Jobs follow investment.

Hundreds of billions, if not trillions, of dollars have been taken from the US economy over the past 4 decades and invested in Asia.

Two hundred years ago, England was the world's industrial super-power.
A hundred years ago, the world bankers, who owned that industry, moved their investment to North America. Billions were invested in US manufacturing.

Starting in the 70s, the capital owners started the process of moving manufacturing to Asia. Just as England never did, and never will regain the strength and power it once had, neither will the US. It happened earlier to The Netherlands, and even earlier to Rome.

In the 80s, the world planners were developing standards, getting the Asian infrastructure ready. The trade agreements of the 90s removed the tarriffs, and destroyed local competition in the target countries.

If you were reading the Asian financial press at the time, you would see dozens of articles *every day* listing another American manufacturer's announcement to open factories in Asia. The Carlyle Group, made up of, among others, Reagan and Bush and their minions, as well as British and Philippine policy makers, had announcements every week of more investment of dollars in Asia. The US Navy held conferences on how to invest in various Asia countries - which were the most corrupt, the best educated, had the best returns, etc.

By the 2000s, those factories were coming on line, and jobs started really disappearing, although it had been happening since the 70s, when Japanese manufacturing overtook American electronics and almost took down Detroit. One of the things Clinton did was to stop gathering and announcing the closure of large businesses, who were laying off thousands, tens of thousands of workers.

Another thing Clinton did was spend millions of US taxpayer money to build an international high-speed broad-band cable between the US and India, so American computer companies could spend billions of dollars building up the Indian software industry, moving jobs to India, meanwhile shutting down US computer training centers and laying off millions of US programmers.

No. It's not going to get better.

Look at the way workers in Italy, Mexico, Singapore live, and take pointers on how to live on poverty wages.

I was lobbying my Senators, my congressman, even the speaker of the House of my state, who was from my district and giving out tax incentives to local software firms who were refusing to disclose their employment statistics back in the late 90s, early 2000s. They all knew what was going on. They were hoping that people wouldn't catch on until it was too late.

It looks like their plans worked.

People still don't get it. They think things are going to get better. Things are going to get worse. This TPPA bill that Obama is pushing through will further seal our fate, and most people just can't bother to even learn about it, much less hold their Senators and Congressperson's feet to the fire when they vote for it. Which they will.

It's a Done Deal. Get used to it.
great post.
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Old 05-18-2015, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Florida
62,647 posts, read 34,157,952 times
Reputation: 10400
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
Interesting. Same industry, but different experiences. Thanks for the enlightening dialogue.
Yes, it's interesting you worked in IT through the teach boom and never worked for a company which offered pensions. Did you work for more than one employer? Or maybe you were a contractor.
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