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Old 05-18-2015, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Inyokern, CA
1,609 posts, read 915,293 times
Reputation: 548

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Quote:
Originally Posted by knowledgeiskey View Post
Not my words. This is economics 101.
Then that 101 book needs to be thrown in the trash and rewritten with huge correction...like it used to be when we had real American free-economy and it worked better than anything else the world has ever seen.
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Old 05-18-2015, 12:42 PM
 
12,025 posts, read 5,703,425 times
Reputation: 7029
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowledgeiskey View Post
The government

The you gave yourself is well deserved. The "Government" doesn't produce a single DIME - the "Government" money all comes from the Taxpayers.
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Old 05-18-2015, 12:42 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,289 posts, read 7,955,579 times
Reputation: 6464
Quote:
Originally Posted by MX City visiting View Post
Will those workers' in America get health care, mandatory paid vacation/sick days, etc. like in Sweden?
All those workers get that.
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Old 05-18-2015, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,283 posts, read 15,758,543 times
Reputation: 9858
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
Here is another reality for a lot of those free undergrad nations.

they limit who can get those degrees. and that limitation begins in grade school.

you get directed down different paths starting very early in life.

not really sure I want to see that happen here.
You know some parent here will complain that their snowflake is being directed towards a no money major or the test was wrong. And yet we wonder where the "entitled youth" get it from. These are likely the parents who are complaining about their child losing and wanting everyone to get trophies.
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Old 05-18-2015, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Out West
22,699 posts, read 16,804,243 times
Reputation: 26275
Quote:
Originally Posted by ORION83 View Post
Awesome. We know with the anti education morons known as the GOP in control it won't happen but it sure puts a target on the anti education GOP twits running for president!

Our tax dollars do.


With EVERYONE'S money....don't like it go off grid burn your SS card and DL or else act like a civilized adult and learn that EVERYONE pays for it in a civilized society and the ONLY reason some people don't pay income tax is because of REPUBLICAN majority and DEMOCRATIC policies that ship jobs overseas and destroy the unions helping us get good paying jobs.
Or you whiny libs can start acting like civilized adults and stop asking everyone else to pay your way. YOU EARN IT! I earned my college education, WTH is wrong with anyone else doing it? LAZY asses.
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Old 05-18-2015, 12:47 PM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,193 posts, read 16,615,116 times
Reputation: 8850
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
Dumb idea but thankfully nothing Sanders sponsors ever gets anywhere.

Skin in the game ($ by students and family) is essential in order to facilitate students choosing wisely where to attend, choosing to study hard years prior to obtain scholarships, and choosing majors with decent or better ROI prospects.
Sanders surely knows this won't go anywhere, so we have to ask, "Why is he proposing it?"

My guess is that it is for political purposes. Now that he has announced he is running for President, he can use it to accuse Republicans of being against education! Watch.
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Old 05-18-2015, 12:49 PM
 
18,796 posts, read 9,612,025 times
Reputation: 5277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
Or you whiny libs can start acting like civilized adults and stop asking everyone else to pay your way. YOU EARN IT! I earned my college education, WTH is wrong with anyone else doing it? LAZY asses.
How dare you to ask the liberal to work? Why do you hate the poor? You have compassion? No morality? You are a racist!!!
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Old 05-18-2015, 12:52 PM
 
364 posts, read 227,892 times
Reputation: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
Or you whiny libs can start acting like civilized adults and stop asking everyone else to pay your way. YOU EARN IT! I earned my college education, WTH is wrong with anyone else doing it? LAZY asses.
Enjoying that debt? Enjoying all these people "earning" their degrees while the country continues to slip behind countries that have FREE aka ALL taxpayers paid education.....you republicans still haven't learned....like a child throwing a fit... ITS MY TAXES!!!!! I WANT IT FOR WAR! EDUCATION IS BAD!
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Old 05-18-2015, 12:52 PM
 
78,749 posts, read 33,503,872 times
Reputation: 15774
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tominftl View Post
Oh god forbid you throw the average American a bone! You conservatives have to think outside the box every now and then. I would also include a two year trade school for the young people who aren't college material. Makes sense to me. We always have money for a new war. What's wrong with spending some money here on our own people?
The problem is, our politicians can not tell anyone "No".In the end there will be no turning anyone away. It's not going to happen because it's un do able. It's not going to happen because we can not quit voting in self serving politicians.
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Old 05-18-2015, 12:53 PM
 
20,077 posts, read 11,137,874 times
Reputation: 20120
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
Want to be more like Germany? Fine. Only the best and brightest will have the opportunity to attend college. Everyone else either goes to work after graduating HS, or attends the equivalent of votech. Still want to aim higher, but can't make the cut? Then pay for it out of your own pocket.

I'm all for it. It is a very sensible and sustainable approach. Not like America, where everyone goes to college because all the jobs are either done by immigrants, or have been exported.
Generally agree.

I don't know if it's been mentioned in this thread, but from the numbers I've seen, the federal government already spends more in public college tuition grants than the tuition public colleges take in. There's a pretty significant amount of "friction" losses in the grant...making tuition free would actually save tax money.

But for sure you're right that the country has to get back to some equilibrium with regard to the purpose and need of a bachelor's degree.

IMO, no more than about 20% of people need a bachelor's degree, and almost all of them should be for professions that actually require graduate degrees. There is very little need for a bachelor degree alone.

But we have been teaching people for a couple of generations now that everyone should have a bachelor's degree, regardless what it may be. So we spend tens of thousands of dollars (between college debt, taxes, and wasted charity) on unnecessary bachelor's degrees when the great need of society is for the majority of people to have a high degree of various kinds of technical training.

Technical training is often dirt cheap--a kid can spend a year and a thousand dollars and be making a living wage. If he wants to continue on to get a bachelor degree for "self-actualization," that's always still available for him...and he will be able to pay as he goes.

The gross-level income statistics we hear comparing "bachelor degree high school diploma" or even "bachelor degree versus no degree" and even worse "college degree versus no degree" are invalid on their faces. More useful comparisons would be something like "Associate degree plus technical certification versus non-STEM bachelor degree."

But right now, we are locked in a mindset that everyone must have a college degree. This has several bad effects:

1. Frankly, not every person is intellectually suited for a rigorous college program (this doesn't mean he's stupid--he may just not be suited for extensive "scholarship"). That means unless colleges want to face huge failure statistics, they must dilute their programs, either by diluting the quality of each major or by offering a larger proportion of "softer" majors.

2. Most high schools in the country do not counsel kids for non-degree technical training, nor do they provide robust technical curricula to prepare kids for technical training. Rather, they actively counsel against anything other than a college education even to kids who are clearly not suited for it.

3. Because most high schools offer only a college preparation curriculum, in order to avoid huge failure statistics they have to water that curriculum toward a lower common denominator. So not only do they not meet the needs of the students who ought to be getting a robust technical preparation education, they don't even meet the needs of the students who ought to be getting a robust college preparation education. A huge percentage of kids get a high school diploma not being adequately prepared for either college or technical training.

4. Businesses have been forced or brainwashed into counting a bachelor degree at the same level they could have counted a high school diploma decades ago. Employers now require bachelor degrees for jobs that require no more skill and training than almost any community college can provide in a year or less.

5. The fact is that only 30% of Americans ever get a bachelor degree--but a huge percentage of the last couple of generations have spent millions of dollars (or perhaps billions) failing to get degrees...and should never have been coerced into trying.
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