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Old 05-19-2015, 10:46 AM
 
40,008 posts, read 24,261,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ORION83 View Post
CRIME is CRIME....PERIOD. Its stupid and only caters to idiots to create these "hate crimes" crap..how about "gender crimes"? How about economically disadvantaged crime?
I totally get what you are saying, and I have lots of doubts about "hate crime" legislation, because it's teetering into thought police territory.

On the other hand, we actually have always classified crime according to intent. We don't have a one-charge-fits-all charge and penalty when someone kills another person. 1st degree, 2nd degree, manslaughter, accident. We already describe criminal acts in different ways depending on motive, and when we consider the motives of this particular man, it indicates that his hatred is his primary motive. That's something that is important to consider (because hatred is hardly the only motivation for crimes, it's probably not even the most common motivation for crimes---I would think greed is far more common), both in determining the kind of crime he committed, and the penalty, and how that penalty will be carried out.
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Old 05-19-2015, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Aztlan
2,686 posts, read 1,410,808 times
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If he pled guilty and is going to serve prison time but is out on bail it sounds like he is awaiting sentencing. The judge probably thinks that he is a low flight risk and not likely to reoffend.
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Old 05-19-2015, 11:58 AM
 
51,661 posts, read 41,613,932 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blind melon View Post
Its called conspiracy to commit murder
You should probably post up the law as to what is required to meet that definition.

I think it is a learning opportunity as opposed to just guessing.
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Old 05-19-2015, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
23,226 posts, read 11,479,282 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ORION83 View Post
Yep sure is. I agree. But that's not a "hate crime" has anyone ever heard of a love crime? All crime is caused be rage,hate,passion etc....silly to call something a hate crime....
"crime of passion" is actually a legal term, not just popular usage. Its used to illuminate premeditation.

And motive is needed to prove any crime, so while they all might not be labeled, determination of why it is done is always part of the case, how else did you think people got charged with terrorism and not just murder ??????????
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Old 05-19-2015, 12:09 PM
 
51,661 posts, read 41,613,932 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Versatile View Post
What is wrong with calling it a hate crime? Are you just wanting to whitewash the crime?
SPECIFIC to this case, what would be wrong is that it doesn't meet the legal definition of hate crime.

However, in general I do support hate crimes but they are often not a big deal either way if the offense is serious enough as you're going away for a long time either way.

Where they really matter is for things like the recent beating of 2 gay men seen kissing by (now former) black college QB from I think Butler. If he is charged with a hate crime, which he should, then the penalty will be much more severe than for simple assault.

I chose that specific example because often people complain that only whites get charged with hate crime and others claim that it's mostly whites (especially rednecks) committing all the bias crimes. Especially with regards to gay males the hate crime stats show a pretty glaring racial bias.
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Old 05-19-2015, 12:11 PM
 
493 posts, read 308,895 times
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We should focus more on domestic Islamic terrorism and ISIS rather than fake trolls trying to become famous. Trust me he won't do any harm to the Muslim community, just talk without action.
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Old 05-19-2015, 12:12 PM
 
51,661 posts, read 41,613,932 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O.C. Ogilvy View Post
If he pled guilty and is going to serve prison time but is out on bail it sounds like he is awaiting sentencing. The judge probably thinks that he is a low flight risk and not likely to reoffend.
Yep. Old coot starts ranting about how they should all go burn down mosque xyz....is specific enough to get arrested but not specific enough like who is going to do what, which day they will attack, how they would get there etc. to be hit with more serious charges.

We go over this all the time when someone starts ranting about whomever is currently president and are off their meds.
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Old 05-19-2015, 12:24 PM
 
40,008 posts, read 24,261,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Yep. Old coot starts ranting about how they should all go burn down mosque xyz....is specific enough to get arrested but not specific enough like who is going to do what, which day they will attack, how they would get there etc. to be hit with more serious charges.

We go over this all the time when someone starts ranting about whomever is currently president and are off their meds.
He seems to have been more specific than you think.

Robert Doggart: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

The link actually contains the plea agreement.
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Old 05-19-2015, 02:39 PM
 
17,497 posts, read 10,621,595 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
He seems to have been more specific than you think.

Robert Doggart: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

The link actually contains the plea agreement.
Saw this also, couldn't defend him being a radical fundamentalist.......what was he thinking, seriously!
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Old 05-19-2015, 02:44 PM
 
77,994 posts, read 33,265,332 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O.C. Ogilvy View Post
If he pled guilty and is going to serve prison time but is out on bail it sounds like he is awaiting sentencing. The judge probably thinks that he is a low flight risk and not likely to reoffend.
Thank you. Now I don't have to bother pointing this out.
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