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Old 05-29-2015, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
31,103 posts, read 13,622,175 times
Reputation: 22152

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
You should worry about yourself and let me worry about me. First principle of liberty is self-ownership. I own me, nobody else owns me.

That a thing can be accomplished does not mean that it must. If it requires making quasi-slaves of everyone to accomplish, then it is immoral by definition.

But on an individual scale, who is more immoral - the parent who abdicates/abandons their parental responsibilities they signed up for of their own volition, or me for being disagreeable to being enslaved to their laziness and apathy?

Essentially, your argument says that my morality is judged on my acceptance of my rights being replaced by permissions from the collective. I earn money via the fruits of my labor, and you & the rest of the collective have that money earmarked for various things. My morality is then based on how happily I part with that money and how good I make you feel about the theft. Basically, how OK am I with having no individual rights and instead having a set of permissions from those who rule me?

So if you get mugged, under your logic for what is moral in society, then you would be immoral if you do not thank your mugger and agree with their action. They too have a proper, justified reason (at least to them) for taking your money, and it is apparently a moral duty to agree with force being initiated upon you, so long as the person initiating has a good reason for doing so. When you no longer have rights, but a set of permissions....you are a slave to whoever is the one doling out the permission.
You can't get through life just worrying about yourself and no one else; that is where your "philosophy" fails. Go back to the example of the sick person who you would allow to die untreated. What if that person had a contagious disease, perhaps a new strain of flu. Without medical diagnosis, treatment and measures to contain spread of the disease, the outcome could be a disaster, possibly with millions becoming very ill or dying. How in the world is that acceptable when we have enough scientific and medical know how to prevent most if not all of those deaths?
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Old 05-29-2015, 02:59 PM
 
6,934 posts, read 2,534,123 times
Reputation: 3782
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
You can't get through life just worrying about yourself and no one else; that is where your "philosophy" fails. Go back to the example of the sick person who you would allow to die untreated. What if that person had a contagious disease, perhaps a new strain of flu. Without medical diagnosis, treatment and measures to contain spread of the disease, the outcome could be a disaster, possibly with millions becoming very ill or dying. How in the world is that acceptable when we have enough scientific and medical know how to prevent most if not all of those deaths?
The only way to engineer a perfectly safe society is complete totalitarianism. Is that your wish? Or are you the keeper of the law where how much safety vs how much tyranny is acceptable?

If a person sneezes on the street and refuses to see a doctor, should they be arrested, detained, treated/tested/prodded by medical personnel, and only when verified to not be a contagion threat, released back into public? Because some people, myself included, don't go to the doctor for every sneeze, we just buy tissues/thera-flu/cough drops and power through. Should that be illegal under your "what about global pandemic because the sick went untreated" paranoia?

Just trying to gauge how far your tyranny in the name of safety and train schedules goes. You're clearly a wannabe tyrant, just trying to see to what degree.
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Old 05-29-2015, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
31,103 posts, read 13,622,175 times
Reputation: 22152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
The only way to engineer a perfectly safe society is complete totalitarianism. Is that your wish? Or are you the keeper of the law where how much safety vs how much tyranny is acceptable?

If a person sneezes on the street and refuses to see a doctor, should they be arrested, detained, treated/tested/prodded by medical personnel, and only when verified to not be a contagion threat, released back into public? Because some people, myself included, don't go to the doctor for every sneeze, we just buy tissues/thera-flu/cough drops and power through. Should that be illegal under your "what about global pandemic because the sick went untreated" paranoia?

Just trying to gauge how far your tyranny in the name of safety and train schedules goes. You're clearly a wannabe tyrant, just trying to see to what degree.
Another nonsense answer...few people would call most 1st world countries totalitarian but they all have some mechanism for treatment and containment of contagious disease, and for providing medical care for the poor. The world you envision doesn't exist, the closest thing to it is Somalia, but you won't go there because that libertarian utopia comes with 15 year old boys with Ak47s.
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