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Old 05-20-2015, 07:23 AM
 
231 posts, read 171,732 times
Reputation: 125

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
We all lost our 4th amendment.
I'm afraid that the 4th amendment mostly disappeared quite a while ago.

I assume you're talking about increased government authority to look at computer records, especially those held by a third parties. If I had to guess, that doesn't even matter much anymore, given the greatly enhanced ability to monitor and store all web traffic. If the (for example) NSA were restricted in that area, my bet is that they would go back to having foreign intelligence agencies do the collecting and then turn it over....rather like how the US has used third party governments for detaining and interrogating people.

It isn't like ECHELON depended on PATRIOT.

In any case, things like bank records have always been accessible. I honestly doubt that removing Patriot Act clauses would improve that situation, they'd either fall back to earlier law or get Feinstein to pass some more targeted bill.

In the case of physical breaking and entering by law enforcement, it's an interesting question. They appear to have redefined what 'unreasonable' is. Is notice necessary to meet the amendment?
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Old 05-20-2015, 07:24 AM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,487,222 times
Reputation: 16962
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Notaras View Post
Um, OK.

So just which right have you lost as a result of the act? I'll go ahead and research it a bit and see what the tie-in is if I get a chance.

I don't have much of a dog in this fight, so I'm curious what the foundations of peoples' theories are in this case.
The PATRIOT Act’s Assault on the Bill of Rights: Newsroom: The Independent Institute

USA PATRIOT ACT


https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/10/ten-years-later-look-three-scariest-provisions-usa-patriot-act


http://www.cato.org/publications/com...ries-come-true

https://www.aclu.org/surveillance-under-usa-patriot-act
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Old 05-20-2015, 07:27 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,617,602 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Notaras View Post
I'm afraid that the 4th amendment mostly disappeared quite a while ago.

Cannot disagree with you there. That is no reason to add to the burden, We The People are trying to right.

I already ran you over, should I back up and do it again?
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Old 05-20-2015, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,737,754 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Notaras View Post
Not to be a Debby Downer, but how many people who are deadset against it have read it?
Probably about the same number who are deadset for it.
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Old 05-20-2015, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,868 posts, read 26,503,175 times
Reputation: 25768
I have to wonder, with all the opposition, why Obama doesn't just stop the execution of the Patriot Act. Laws have never been a hindrance in the past.
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Old 05-20-2015, 07:29 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,820,687 times
Reputation: 6509
I stand with Rand! I am glad someone in Washington will call out this junk bill and fight for our rights.

If you are serious about reclaiming our 4th amendment protections you will vote for Rand!
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Old 05-20-2015, 07:30 AM
 
231 posts, read 171,732 times
Reputation: 125

I like these virtual arguments.

A law no one has read vs. articles no one has read that were largely researched by reporters that aren't experts (I'll give the ACLU a pass on that one).

Pretty soon, we can automate the whole works.
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Old 05-20-2015, 07:31 AM
 
231 posts, read 171,732 times
Reputation: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
Probably about the same number who are deadset for it.
I can't say that I've run into that one, although they probably exist.
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Old 05-20-2015, 07:32 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,617,602 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
I have to wonder, with all the opposition, why Obama doesn't just stop the execution of the Patriot Act. Laws have never been a hindrance in the past.


“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”


Just the first of many lies told, while holding office.
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Old 05-20-2015, 07:32 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,737,754 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
I have to wonder, with all the opposition, why Obama doesn't just stop the execution of the Patriot Act. Laws have never been a hindrance in the past.
Because he supports the Patriot Act.
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