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Old 05-21-2015, 09:59 PM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
14,801 posts, read 17,612,348 times
Reputation: 9024

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
I'm an American(Black American specifically).
Oh ok, i was asking why you have an issue of how other people see their countries history?

i view the past USA pretty negatively but i don't have a huge problem with people who view it in a more positive light, the only problem i have is when they start it by talking sh-t about my generation and going on and on about how much better they supposedly were compared to us.
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Old 05-21-2015, 10:04 PM
 
6,534 posts, read 9,017,238 times
Reputation: 2812
Quote:
Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3 View Post

What does race have to do with anything? that sounds soooo 1950s

People who are critical of US history are critical of US history, it doesn't matter what your skin color is lol.
Race has a good amount to do with how Americans view their history simply because different racial groups have had different experiences in U.S history. Being a descendant of slaves gives many blacks a different view of the founding fathers,who owned slaves,in comparison to how many white Americans view them. I can't ignore the fact that they were slave holders and be proud of them in the same way that many white Americans are.
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Old 05-21-2015, 10:08 PM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
14,801 posts, read 17,612,348 times
Reputation: 9024
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
Race has a good amount to do with how Americans view their history simply because different racial groups have had different experiences in U.S history. Being a descendant of slaves gives many blacks a different view of the founding fathers,who owned slaves,in comparison to how many white Americans view them. I can't ignore the fact that they were slave holders and be proud of them in the same way that many white Americans are.
I don't get it do you assume white people are all pro slavery or something?

You do realize that probably a good 90 percent of EVERYBODY (people of all colors of the rainbow) are against slavery right?
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Old 05-21-2015, 11:19 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
21,114 posts, read 14,175,815 times
Reputation: 15642
Quote:
Originally Posted by flashes1 View Post
Think about the perfect confluence of our Founding Fathers at the time of English tryanny. Nothing like this has ever happened in recorded human history. Think about how great these men were----the beautiful ideas that still hold true, 240 years later. The Middle East needs a group of men like this to pull them out of the Middle Ages. Sadly, I don't think we'll see that in our life times.
I think those who want religion as part of government don't understand the motivation of the founding fathers when they wrote the Declaration of Independence.

The Declaration was the first document to challenge the very heart of royalty.

King George was king because his right to be king came directly from God. That's the way all Kings validated their right to their thrones, and the way all Popes validated their right to dictate to Kings.

The Magna Carta created the right of nobility in England to have a say as to what the King's powers were, but the commoners had no say about anything.

Our Declaration stated that all men posses the same inalienable rights- rights that are unable to be taken or given away from any man by another.

Remember that the King of England was also the head of the Anglican church, the official religion of England. That happened when Henry the 8th declared that he, as King, could say whether a divorce was to be allowed or not, not the Pope of Rome. Because England need a religion to replace Roman Catholicism, Henry declared Catholicism to no lover be the official religion of England and created the Anglican church to replace it. He made himself the equivalent of the Pope.

That's why the Declaration stated God alone, not any religion, gave the inalienable rights to every man. The Constitution backed this up when it created a firm division between church and state.

This was the second challenge to the King's authority over the Americans. The Americans refused to obey his orders because the King had no more authority than a common man to give orders, and the Americans would not obey an order from the Anglican church, the religion of most of them, that had anything to do with our civil affairs. This challenged the King in his role as ruler of the church.

When the Constitution was written, the writers made sure that no American could ever claim anyone's civil authority over all others as being from the word of God, recognized through means of religion.

At the same time, the Constitution gives everyone the rights to worship as they choose without government interference, and any religion the right to set its beliefs and rules as its believers see fit. The only limit is interjecting any religion's beliefs into our laws and civic affairs.

So we call all believe in any spiritual way we choose freely, and we are all allowed to govern ourselves as we see fit, without the chains of any religion denying that right.
As Americans, we can announce we acknowledge the presence of God, if we believe in God, but that God does not rule us. We rule ourselves, period.

We went to war over those two things. Since we won that war, we all have the same inalienable rights. None of us can give away or take those rights from another by our most foundational law.

And at the same time, each of us can believe in whatever we want to believe in with no interference from our government. Our government endorses no religion and allows all equally at the same time.

And that's why we will never be ruled by a King nor a Preacher.
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Old 05-21-2015, 11:24 PM
 
32,197 posts, read 26,007,072 times
Reputation: 18872
i am proud of where this country started, and where it is now. and there are many things this country has done since its inception to be proud of. there are however things that we should not be proud of. we should however know our history, good or bad, and accept it all as part of the growing pains of this country. every country goes through them, as well as every civilization. it is what it is.
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Old 05-22-2015, 12:06 AM
 
259 posts, read 147,576 times
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American history has a lot of good and noble and an almost equal amount of downright heinous and barbaric. It is what it is. Deal with it and stop getting so defensive. Have none of the apologists here moved beyond the typical 5th grade mentality of wishing away uncomfortable facts?
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Old 05-22-2015, 12:06 AM
 
Location: honolulu
1,729 posts, read 1,271,577 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
I've never heard anyone deny that part. They may not choose to flog their country with it and be defined as a nation by it since, as you said, most have similar things in common.
ever hear of the KIngdom of Hawaii??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnx1p9tiz2k



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4VaSTDCLI8



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4VaSTDCLI8
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Old 05-22-2015, 07:41 AM
 
26,285 posts, read 24,342,131 times
Reputation: 15944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
Are most people here saying you love America's history and are proud of it white?

Many blacks seem to have a more critical view of America's history even if they are proud to be American. The black experience doesn't allow blacks to overlook America's historical flaws. Blacks and other people of color even if they are patriotic have been more aware of America's hypocrisy when it comes to preaching about democracy.

Example:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRMkmB85m1s
I agree with you to an extent, and then, enough is enough.

It's time to move forward and let it go...I admit what was done back then was so so tragic and wrong, but it can't be used as an excuse to hate, or to be prejudice, b/c if you allow it to, it will infect you and so many others....

Yanno, I work with a whole lot of outstanding blacks who worked very hard to get where they are, who are extremely wonderful co-workers and human beings, who came up from the bottom.
I also work with a lot of blacks, who use all this as an excuse to sue the pants off of people and get rich quick...

I watched a video this morning that is circulating on FB...it's about some older black woman, who is cooking and she is cussing worse then any truck driver and then, she calls the person who is taping her, the "N" word...and I cannot tell you how that pissed me off....

When my son was young, he came home one day from school and said, he heard some kid say the "n" word. And asked me what it meant. I told him..."yanno, we're not even going to discuss it, and you also know, that I've never ever hit you across the mouth or face, b/c I don't believe in it...but, God as my witness, if I ever hear you say that word, I'll hit you in the mouth with a closed fist!"

So, how come, in this day and age, it's ok for that black woman to call someone else that dirty filthy horrible name, but when a cultural white woman from the south does it, she gets thrown off her TV show, and she did it years ago. She was raised with that disgusting word...as if it were normal? Just like that eagles football player was raised to believe in fighting dogs was fine. When your raised to believe in something, it carries over into adult life.

And how come, when a white cop kills a black criminal, who has a rap sheet a mile long, that give blacks the ok to use that as an excuse, to riot, to burn, to hit and hurt others?

And yet, when a white person is kicked to death by black kids, or black kids run up to a white person, and hit them in the head, that's ok? And no one says a word?

Yanno, its time to stop this poop, and get on with our lives....
if you want something you work for it....handouts are getting as old as God...and its time black people start raising their kids, with morals and respect for laws...just like I was raised.

I came up poor, very poor, and yes, I'm white, but I know what it's like to have to work for every blasted thing I have, since I was 13 years old. I didn't rob anyone, steal from anyone, or collect welfare...I freakin worked....and there is nothing wrong with working hard, and an honest job...

And for you whites out there, who don't have jobs, there is nothing wrong with cleaning house, and collecting trash if you have to, to feed your families....

Many years ago, some white person said, "yeah, I'd never do a job and get my hands dirty", and whoever that person was, if he were my son, I'd slap him across the head silly!!!

Enough is enough, it's time for everyone to get to work and work hard and stop using excuses and train their kids differently. you don't have kids so you can collect welfare, and you don't get married to have some guy take care of you....it's freakin 2015...and it's time American's collect some humbleness and get an education...and help themselves...b/c the way things are going, we're all corroding the system, and I've had just about enough of all the excuses and freebies, and providing some arse hole like Al Sharpton with an excuse to get rich.

You want a great example of men, look up to Martin Luther Kind, and Colin Powell, Ben Carson...and lets get to work...its time we all start reading more, and stop allowing others to not only do our thinking for us, but telling us how to think and what to believe.

Lets start with our children...there is no quick fix, it's got to be cultivated through hard work and knowledge year after year, to change this, until maybe, thru the next few generations, you will start to see change. I know I have, but change doesn't come overnight, it takes a long time, and it takes everyone working together, following the law to the T, and realizing, that our thoughts, our actions, and words can affect so many other people in a negative way....

Last edited by cremebrulee; 05-22-2015 at 07:58 AM..
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Old 05-22-2015, 08:38 AM
 
26,285 posts, read 24,342,131 times
Reputation: 15944
Here, this is not by far, from a conspiracy theorist, but couldn't be more factual and true....

He to, remembers how it "used" to be.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyzDRc34l2g
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Old 05-22-2015, 08:47 AM
 
16,247 posts, read 9,041,960 times
Reputation: 6525
As a student of history, I can say that there has never been a nation free from fault. not one.

Further, I can say I know of no single group of people who have gathered for noble causes that are free from fault.

America has had fault. There is no question about that. But on Par, America is the greatest nation on the planet today.

America is a nation full of promise for every person here and for millions more who want to be here.
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