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Old 05-30-2015, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
6,059 posts, read 3,379,100 times
Reputation: 7695

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil P View Post
You know, you can't isolate history and say you would only like it if everything turned out perfect. You have to say, if the US had not developed, then what would have developed in its place. With that in mind, I can say that the US did a pretty good job from a historical perspective. Every countries history has its flaws.

The main thing with history is people focus on the mistakes. Were the native american issues bad? Yes, but the land of the continental US has benefited far more people after the US had it than when the native Americans had it.
Yes, we truly have treated this landscape far better than those pesky "Injuns" did How does that George Carlin song go again?
“Oh Beautiful for smoggy skies, insecticided grain,
For strip-mined mountain's majesty above the asphalt plain.
America, America, man sheds his waste on thee,
And hides the pines with billboard signs, from sea to oily sea.”
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Old 05-30-2015, 09:25 PM
 
10,097 posts, read 7,534,996 times
Reputation: 5225
What is wrong with accepting that the founding fathers were brilliant men who spearheaded the most revolutionary ideals of the time and created a country that defied the notion of the divine right of kings? That's amazing!

But one can also accept that the revolution was incomplete and is still always evolving. Slavery, conquest, imperialism, colonialism and war are always going to be a part of our history. But so were all the positive gains people have won struggling for their rights; civil, labor, suffrage.

I'm only proud of American history because its the story of a back and forth struggle for a better future.
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Old 05-31-2015, 08:12 AM
 
11,057 posts, read 3,754,725 times
Reputation: 5197
Quote:
Originally Posted by radiolibre99 View Post
What is wrong with accepting that the founding fathers were brilliant men who spearheaded the most revolutionary ideals of the time and created a country that defied the notion of the divine right of kings? That's amazing!

But one can also accept that the revolution was incomplete and is still always evolving. Slavery, conquest, imperialism, colonialism and war are always going to be a part of our history. But so were all the positive gains people have won struggling for their rights; civil, labor, suffrage.

I'm only proud of American history because its the story of a back and forth struggle for a better future.

Conquest??? the U.S. never conquest any country.

Slavery was an institution brought to the new world by the old world and was also practiced by the Natives.....it ended quickly in the U.S.




put things under perspective, the U.S. for being a young republic compare to the rest of the world has evolved to a great country like no other.


Name 1 country other than the U.S.A. that blacks are 13% of the population and they serve in the highest positions in government, most millionaires in the world and are all over the media and get special treatment from the government?.....name 1.......no anglo country in the world does that to blacks or any minority except the U.S.A.


but the liberal agenda tells blacks and latinos that they have it bad in the U.S.A........But nobody goes back to Africa or Latin Republics to live.
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Old 05-31-2015, 10:05 AM
 
10,097 posts, read 7,534,996 times
Reputation: 5225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post
Conquest??? the U.S. never conquest any country.

Slavery was an institution brought to the new world by the old world and was also practiced by the Natives.....it ended quickly in the U.S.




put things under perspective, the U.S. for being a young republic compare to the rest of the world has evolved to a great country like no other.


Name 1 country other than the U.S.A. that blacks are 13% of the population and they serve in the highest positions in government, most millionaires in the world and are all over the media and get special treatment from the government?.....name 1.......no anglo country in the world does that to blacks or any minority except the U.S.A.


but the liberal agenda tells blacks and latinos that they have it bad in the U.S.A........But nobody goes back to Africa or Latin Republics to live.
Ridiculous. Just more chest pumping. You guys won't rest until the US is seen as the must exceptional nation in the history of the free world, eh? It just insults your core that people don't bow down to the Stars and Stripes.

So we just won the entire country by being nice to the natives? We played paper, rock, scissor for Mexico's territory? We never fought the Spanish for Cuba, the Philipines or Puerto Rico?

Here is a tid bit of history you never learned probably. The USSR never invaded us but we invaded it!

Let's not forget Vietnam, Grenada, Cambodia, Lebanon, Dominican Republic, Panama etc. All the third world despots we supported to secure the world for international commerce (oops I mean "freedom").

And yes it's good that African Americans are in high positions of power. It only took centuries after slavery, Jim Crow, segregation, the civil rights movement, and after African Americans are still dealing with systematic biases in the justice system. Their community was systematically held down for centuries through policy. Yes , policy from slavery, to Jim Crow to the COINTELPRO program of the 50s, 60s and 70s.

But of course none of this is putting it into perspective for you. All I said is just "left wing loony" history because in your rose colored world the USA is the greatest nation of all time no ifs ands or buts. You guys won't stop until every news coverage or history book is nothing but flag waving propaganda.
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Old 05-31-2015, 10:17 AM
 
Location: East St. Paul 651 forever (or North St. Paul) .
2,869 posts, read 2,828,489 times
Reputation: 1446
Did the natives even have so much as a wheel? They didn't have written language, we know that. They had no formal infrastructure - we know that. They were primitive hunter gatherer culture, period. Let's not paint them out to be the creators of America - they were not.
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Old 05-31-2015, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Arizona
13,090 posts, read 7,806,687 times
Reputation: 6971
Quote:
Originally Posted by Govie View Post
Did the natives even have so much as a wheel? They didn't have written language, we know that. They had no formal infrastructure - we know that. They were primitive hunter gatherer culture, period. Let's not paint them out to be the creators of America - they were not.
Yes they were and the United States Congress said so.

Congress passed a resolution in 1988 that states,(Actual wording of the resolution)

"To acknowledge the contribution of the Iroquois Confederacy of Nations to the development of the United States Constitution Whereas, the original framers of the constitution, including most notably, George Washington and Benjamin Franklin, are known to have greatly admired the concepts, principles and government practices of the Six Nations of the Iroquois Confederacy; and

Whereas, the Confederation of the original thirteen colonies into one Republic was explicitly modeled upon the Iroquois Confederacy as were many of the democratic principles which were incorporated into the Constitution itself; and,
Now, therefore be it Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States in Congress assembled, that:

1) The Congress, on the occasion of the 200th anniversary of the signing of the United States Constitution, acknowledges the historical debt which this Republic of the United States of America owes to the Iroquois Confederacy and other Indian Nations for their demonstration of enlightened, democratic principles of government and their example of a free association of independent Indian Nations;"



Govie, you can continue to spin your historical rewrite of history so that it glorifies the accomplishments of the white man and denigrates the contributions of the redman in the formation of this nation but I will NOT let this stand. I will not allow you to rewrite history."
Until you acknowledge and respect our contributions to the formation of this nation, we will never respect nor acknowledge the contributions the Euros have made.
You say we were brutal savages who constantly warred on each other and literally annihilated other tribes, on a regular basis, prior to the white man. You use it to justify your process of total extinction euphemistically called manifest destiny.
This whole notion is patently false. Link me one Historical example of one tribe exterminating another prior to the white man's arrival..
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Old 05-31-2015, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Arizona
13,090 posts, read 7,806,687 times
Reputation: 6971
Quote:
Originally Posted by Govie View Post
Did the natives even have so much as a wheel? They didn't have written language, we know that. They had no formal infrastructure - we know that. They were primitive hunter gatherer culture, period. Let's not paint them out to be the creators of America - they were not.
We didn't need a wheel.

We used Beadwork to preserve our teachings. It's worked just as well as writing for us.
We had the most forward thinking democratic structure. Recognized as the oldest continuous democracy on the planet.
We were an agrarian society that also had industry that was more than sufficient for our needs.

We were exactly what you deny. Creators of the foundations of America you know today.

Like it or lump it, this is the historical truth and the US Congress acknowledges it.

Last edited by mohawkx; 05-31-2015 at 11:48 AM..
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Old 05-31-2015, 11:23 AM
 
8,063 posts, read 3,883,997 times
Reputation: 2452
Default American History.

Americans never had the support of Europe even to this day. Americans always had to press on and expand America to one Union. European History is not so political correct either.

If America did not fight for its existence we would of never got past Missouri. Lewis and Clark would of never went past the Missouri and the Mississippi River or St. Charles Mo. (The First Capital of Missouri)

Option is clear If you do not like tis country Leave and spare us the grief. There is always a Illegal Immigrant waiting to take your place.
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Old 05-31-2015, 11:37 AM
 
10,097 posts, read 7,534,996 times
Reputation: 5225
Quote:
Originally Posted by GHOSTRIDER AZ View Post
Americans never had the support of Europe even to this day. Americans always had to press on and expand America to one Union. European History is not so political correct either.

If America did not fight for its existence we would of never got past Missouri. Lewis and Clark would of never went past the Missouri and the Mississippi River or St. Charles Mo. (The First Capital of Missouri)

Option is clear If you do not like tis country Leave and spare us the grief. There is always a Illegal Immigrant waiting to take your place.
Why is it always accept that this country is the best ever or leave? Why can't people just be mildly indifferent? Why can't people see the history of the US as high points and low points?

Why do you people only want pro-US propaganda?
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Old 05-31-2015, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Arizona
13,090 posts, read 7,806,687 times
Reputation: 6971
Quote:
Originally Posted by GHOSTRIDER AZ View Post
Americans never had the support of Europe even to this day. Americans always had to press on and expand America to one Union. European History is not so political correct either.

If America did not fight for its existence we would of never got past Missouri. Lewis and Clark would of never went past the Missouri and the Mississippi River or St. Charles Mo. (The First Capital of Missouri)

Option is clear If you do not like tis country Leave and spare us the grief. There is always a Illegal Immigrant waiting to take your place.
In some cases, when the people at the top, tell the people at the bottom to "like it or leave" The people at the bottom rise up and kick out the people at the top, rather than leave. It's happened 100s of times in other nations in the past. It can happen very easily again.
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