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Old 05-31-2015, 12:16 PM
 
8,063 posts, read 3,883,997 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiolibre99 View Post
Why is it always accept that this country is the best ever or leave? Why can't people just be mildly indifferent? Why can't people see the history of the US as high points and low points?

Why do you people only want pro-US propaganda?
I do see the highs and lows and perhaps some of the mistakes that it taken generations to understand. But at the time of the history making moment there was no way in determining the ultimate out come.

Be I see America more exceptional than the European Powers with their Kings and Queens and ultimately the Socialist Union they have become.
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Old 05-31-2015, 12:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiolibre99 View Post
Ridiculous. Just more chest pumping. You guys won't rest until the US is seen as the must exceptional nation in the history of the free world, eh? It just insults your core that people don't bow down to the Stars and Stripes.

So we just won the entire country by being nice to the natives? We played paper, rock, scissor for Mexico's territory? We never fought the Spanish for Cuba, the Philipines or Puerto Rico?

Here is a tid bit of history you never learned probably. The USSR never invaded us but we invaded it!

Let's not forget Vietnam, Grenada, Cambodia, Lebanon, Dominican Republic, Panama etc. All the third world despots we supported to secure the world for international commerce (oops I mean "freedom").

And yes it's good that African Americans are in high positions of power. It only took centuries after slavery, Jim Crow, segregation, the civil rights movement, and after African Americans are still dealing with systematic biases in the justice system. Their community was systematically held down for centuries through policy. Yes , policy from slavery, to Jim Crow to the COINTELPRO program of the 50s, 60s and 70s.

But of course none of this is putting it into perspective for you. All I said is just "left wing loony" history because in your rose colored world the USA is the greatest nation of all time no ifs ands or buts. You guys won't stop until every news coverage or history book is nothing but flag waving propaganda.


another unhappy American resident who got a liberal education of why America sucks at taxpayers dime.



1) Name 1 country in the world that the Natives weren't pushed aside by new settlers, new pioneers and the new generation?,,,,name 1 country that is run by natives today that is a modern country and has a high standard of living? name 1.......is Mexico run by natives??? is Guatemala run by natives? is Peru or Ecuador run by natives? NO! they are cast aside from the rest of the society and live in extreme poverty.


2) What about Mexico's territory who was ALL desert and wasteland? Mexico lost the war and sold that land to the U.S.A. and it was the U.S.A and pioneers and settlers that invested in those territories that made it to the states what it is today.....looking at the corruption and culture DEFICIENCY in Mexico today you think California, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Nevada, Utah, Oregon and Idaho are better off under Mexican and the Drug Cartels rule? Have you been to Mexico????? and I don't mean the tourist Mexico, I mean the "real" Mexico?......and you feel guilty because of the results of the AMERICAN/Mexican war? ..........by the way, those lands the Natives took it from other Natives, Spain took it from the Natives, Mexican mestizos and light skin Spaniards who were in MEXICO controlling the colony took it from Spain and the U.S.A took it from Mexico by war and sale.....nothing new, this has been going on in every continent for centuries.....the U.S.A. didn't do any different than what has been going on in Africa, Asia, India, Europe for centuries or what the Natives in America did to other Natives.



3) What about Puerto Rico? Puerto Rico is better off under U.S. control than under 400 years of Spain or any latin banana republic. Look how Puerto Ricans vote with their feet. More Puerto Ricans live in the states than in Puerto Rico. 97% of the electorate in Puerto Rico reject independence from the U.S.A.....that tells you all how bad is the U.S.A for PUERTO RICO the false myth you try to spread.




4) Cuba? again Cuba was better off when it had an open market with the U.S.A. and it had American investors.....Fidel Castro took over and sold to the poor and uneducated that American capitalism and the U.S. were the problem as a result Cuba has lived for 60 years under a totalitarian state that the MIN. WAGE in Cuba is 5 cents an hour today , Cuba doesn't have a free press and nobody had freedom of speech......now since Cuba's Communist revolution as been a FAILURE, now the Castro's brothers want that American Capitalism and open market and American dollars and American investors BACK to Cuba.......go figured!!! Castro's just admitted defeat and that he was wrong and wasted 60 years of Cuba that is still stuck in 1959.....but to you the U.S.A is evil.




5) Vietnam? how did we invaded Vietnam? where did you get your education in history? did we invaded KOrea too in your mind?? look at North Korea today and compare that to South Korea and you still blame the U.S.A? .......you think the dictators in North KOREA hasn't invaded South Korea and enslaved and killed millions of innocent people because they are NICE people or because the American military is defending the border?.....but for you Americans are bad.




6) Slavery didn't last centuries in the U.S.A. another "fact" you got wrong. It lasted 89 years since our Republic was founded because it was inherited from the OLD WORLD and it was an institution practiced around the world for centuries from Asia, Africa, Europe, Middle EAST and the Natives in the Americas.......name me 1 country that had slavery in their history that only lasted a short 89 years? name 1......Spain, Portugal, Romans, China and Japan had it for centuries and I don't see anyone of them today being ashamed of their culture or history like some liberals are in the U.S.A.....Its pathetic.



7) How is the civil rights movement working out in Africa? how is the rule of law in Africa?.....how is crime in Africa? How is corruption in Africa? how is slavery, genocide and how they treat women in Africa?...how is the economic opportunity in Africa?........and African-Americans want to complain about the U.S.A??? LMAO!!!! I don't see 1 African-American renouncing their U.S. citizenship to go back to Africa to eat flies and live in paradise away from the evil racist system in the U.S.A do you?




I put history under perspective and I'm not ashamed of it. For being a young Republic, the U.S.A. has evolved into a great nation. I never said hide the "negative" part of history and only show the rosy one.....that's not me, there are many sides to history but to just focus on what you view as negative and ignore the rest it shows where are you coming from.




Last edited by Hellion1999; 05-31-2015 at 12:36 PM..
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Old 05-31-2015, 12:36 PM
 
8,063 posts, read 3,883,997 times
Reputation: 2452
Default Point!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post
another unhappy American resident who got a liberal education of why America sucks at taxpayers dime.



1) Name 1 country in the world that the Natives weren't pushed aside by new settlers, new pioneers and the new generation?,,,,name 1 country that is run by natives today that is a modern country and has a high standard of living? name 1.......is Mexico run by natives??? is Guatemala run by natives? is Peru or Ecuador run by natives? NO! they are cast aside from the rest of the society and live in extreme poverty.
If you really think about Early America started the tide. Spaniards stole Inca gold and was obsessed in mining the new world. The English wanted to etch out a new territory which started in Jamestown 1603.
The American Indian did not fair well, however did not cope to the new situation well.
End result they were conquered by the desire to push west.


2) What about Mexico's territory who was ALL desert and wasteland? Mexico lost the war and sold that land to the U.S.A. and it was the U.S.A and pioneers and settlers that invested in those territories that made it to the states what it is today.....looking at the corruption and culture DEFICIENCY in Mexico today you think California, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Nevada, Utah, Oregon and Idaho are better off under Mexican and the Drug Cartels rule? Have you been to Mexico????? and I don't mean the tourist Mexico, I mean the "real" Mexico?......and you feel guilty because of the results of the AMERICAN/Mexican war?
What is funny about this whole thing is Santa Anna Mexican General sold Texas NM and Arizona to the Americans for 10 million dollars. (Gladsen Purchase) So the Mexican Gov sold themselves out.!





I put history under perspective and I'm not ashamed of it. For being a young Republic, the U.S.A. has evolved into a great nation. I never said hide the "negative" part of history and only show the rosy one.....that's not me, there are many sides to history but to just focus on what you view as negative and ignore the rest it shows where are you coming from.


Good post I hope I added some value add to the Post.
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Old 05-31-2015, 12:39 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,998,929 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
You keep repeating that over and over and it just isn't true at all. Some tribes had differences and formed regular raiding parties to steal each others women and stores but no tribe ever tried to annihilate the other until the Euros pushed then westward into other tribes homelands.
Also the tribes in the Northeast had a Democratic Confederacy that existed since 1100 AD and still holds today.
Not exactly the picture of brutal savages exterminating each other at every opportunity.

If you're going to repeat that crap, then provide some substantial links to support that claim. I assure you I have irrefutable links to support exactly the opposite from what you claim.
Now there is evidence that people other than the Clovis People arrived to the Americas at different times and from different places. This evidence comes from looking at lots more archeological sites, and studying the DNA of Native Americans.

Understanding Genetics

I can't find "written" info on mass murders by different American Indian tribes against other tribes. Tho going by the 5 different waves of their ancestors, I'm quite sure there was some ugly stuff that came down. You and I gotta remember there were NO written records from 1,000's of years ago anywhere except maybe the runes and the writing from the Egyptians from way back when.
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Old 05-31-2015, 12:40 PM
 
11,057 posts, read 3,754,725 times
Reputation: 5197
I edited the part of the Mexican/American war.


What about Mexico's territory who was ALL desert and wasteland? Mexico lost the war and sold that land to the U.S.A. and it was the U.S.A and pioneers and settlers that invested in those territories that made it to the states what it is today.....looking at the corruption and culture DEFICIENCY in Mexico today you think California, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Nevada, Utah, Oregon and Idaho are better off under Mexican and the Drug Cartels rule? Have you been to Mexico????? and I don't mean the tourist Mexico, I mean the "real" Mexico?......and you feel guilty because of the results of the AMERICAN/Mexican war? ..........by the way, those lands the Natives took it from other Natives, Spain took it from the Natives, Mexican mestizos and light skin Spaniards who were in MEXICO controlling the colony took it from Spain and the U.S.A took it from Mexico by war and sale.....nothing new, this has been going on in every continent for centuries.....the U.S.A. didn't do any different than what has been going on in Africa, Asia, India, Europe for centuries or what the Natives in America did to other Natives.



for any American to feel guilty in how we became a great nation when other nations don't feel guilty of their history is pathetic and liberal propaganda at taxpayers dime.....I can't believe they pay teachers in colleges at taxpayers dime to teach this guilt and resentment to our youth.
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Old 05-31-2015, 12:42 PM
 
10,097 posts, read 7,534,996 times
Reputation: 5225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post
another unhappy American resident who got a liberal education of why America sucks at taxpayers dime.



1) Name 1 country in the world that the Natives weren't pushed aside by new settlers, new pioneers and the new generation?,,,,name 1 country that is run by natives today that is a modern country and has a high standard of living? name 1.......is Mexico run by natives??? is Guatemala run by natives? is Peru or Ecuador run by natives? NO! they are cast aside from the rest of the society and live in extreme poverty.


2) What about Mexico's territory who was ALL desert and wasteland? Mexico lost the war and sold that land to the U.S.A. and it was the U.S.A and pioneers and settlers that invested in those territories that made it to the states what it is today.....looking at the corruption and culture DEFICIENCY in Mexico today you think California, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Nevada, Utah, Oregon and Idaho are better off under Mexican and the Drug Cartels rule? Have you been to Mexico????? and I don't mean the tourist Mexico, I mean the "real" Mexico?......and you feel guilty because of the results of the AMERICAN/Mexican war? ..........by the way, those lands the Natives took it from other Natives, Spain took it from the Natives, Mexican mestizos and light skin Spaniards who were in MEXICO controlling the colony took it from Spain and the U.S.A took it from Mexico by war and sale.....nothing new, this has been going on in every continent for centuries.....the U.S.A. didn't do any different than what has been going on in Africa, Asia, India, Europe for centuries or what the Natives in America did to other Natives.



3) What about Puerto Rico? Puerto Rico is better off under U.S. control than under 400 years of Spain or any latin banana republic. Look how Puerto Ricans vote with their feet. More Puerto Ricans live in the states than in Puerto Rico. 97% of the electorate in Puerto Rico reject independence from the U.S.A.....that tells you all how bad is the U.S.A for PUERTO RICO the false myth you try to spread.




4) Cuba? again Cuba was better off when it had an open market with the U.S.A. and it had American investors.....Fidel Castro took over and sold to the poor and uneducated that American capitalism and the U.S. were the problem as a result Cuba has lived for 60 years under a totalitarian state that the MIN. WAGE in Cuba is 5 cents an hour today , Cuba doesn't have a free press and nobody had freedom of speech......now since Cuba's Communist revolution as been a FAILURE, now the Castro's brothers want that American Capitalism and open market and American dollars and American investors BACK to Cuba.......go figured!!! Castro's just admitted defeat and that he was wrong and wasted 60 years of Cuba that is still stuck in 1959.....but to you the U.S.A is evil.




5) Vietnam? how did we invaded Vietnam? where did you get your education in history? did we invaded KOrea too in your mind?? look at North Korea today and compare that to South Korea and you still blame the U.S.A? .......you think the dictators in North KOREA hasn't invaded South Korea and enslaved and killed millions of innocent people because they are NICE people or because the American military is defending the border?.....but for you Americans are bad.




6) Slavery didn't last centuries in the U.S.A. another "fact" you got wrong. It lasted 89 years since our Republic was founded because it was inherited from the OLD WORLD and it was an institution practiced around the world for centuries from Asia, Africa, Europe, Middle EAST and the Natives in the Americas.......name me 1 country that had slavery in their history that only lasted a short 89 years? name 1......Spain, Portugal, Romans, China and Japan had it for centuries and I don't see anyone of them today being ashamed of their culture or history like some liberals are in the U.S.A.....Its pathetic.



7) How is the civil rights movement working out in Africa? how is the rule of law in Africa?.....how is crime in Africa? How is corruption in Africa? how is slavery, genocide and how they treat women in Africa?...how is the economic opportunity in Africa?........and African-Americans want to complain about the U.S.A??? LMAO!!!! I don't see 1 African-American renouncing their U.S. citizenship to go back to Africa to eat flies and live in paradise away from the evil racist system in the U.S.A do you?




I put history under perspective and I'm not ashamed of it. For being a young Republic, the U.S.A. has evolved into a great nation. I never said hide the "negative" part of history and only show the rosy one.....that's not me, there are many sides to history but to just focus on what you view as negative and ignore the rest it shows where are you coming from.



What a useless post! My point wasn't that other countries were better but that ALL nations have a bad history along with moments of progress. I wasn't trying to say that the US was a terrible county just that its not exceptional.

Your post reads like an immature straw man argument.

But of course you're going to write back saying I didn't address your points so here goes:

The history of most of the European powers is colonialism so yes Spain conquered Mexico and such. You're correct about Mexico but also proving my point that there was nothing exceptional in what the US did to gain land through conquest. They all did it. The point is to say that the US has the same colonial history as any other nation.

As for Puerto Rico, I take it you've never heard of the Puerto Rican nationalist movement. Anyways my point AGAIN wasn't to say that the US was this terrible country that does nothing but lay waste but that it's history is no exception in conquest.

Your idea seems to be that US conquest is good while others are bad. Well then that means the British empire was benevolent to because Canada and Australia became sovereign productive peaceful nations too? All the while ignoring the terrible subjugation of India and Africa.

The US during the Cold War was brutal. I whole heartedly disagree that Cuba was better off under Batista. It was the Latin American equivalent of Bangkok, Thailand. Just a wasteland of poor peasants and mafia controlled businesses. Cuba is not perfect at all, it's still troubled but NOT as worse off as it was pre revolution.

The fact that I even answered your immature straw man post shows that I at least understand where you're coming from. You won't settle for anything less than the US is the best ever no exceptions when all I am saying is that the US too has its highs and low points and is NOT exceptional. I'm not saying its nazi Germany like you think all liberals think.


That's the problem with you cons. It's all or nothing. No one can have a nuanced view of history. It has to be USA uniquely number one OR you're saying that US = nazi Germany.

Last edited by radiolibre99; 05-31-2015 at 12:56 PM..
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Old 05-31-2015, 12:50 PM
 
11,057 posts, read 3,754,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiolibre99 View Post
What a useless post! My point wasn't that other countries were better but that ALL nations have a bad history along with moments of progress. I wasn't trying to say that the US was a terrible county just that its not exceptional.

Your post reads like an immature straw man argument.


bad history for who?.......obviously millions have benefited in many countries by pushing the Natives and their backwards culture aside in the name of evolution and progress. It has been done from North America, Central America and South America.......I don't feel guilty because the Navajo Nation isn't running things in the U.S.A.



my post is to counter each and every "negative" point of American history you made but you don't want to debate both sides in details....you just drive by and throw topics of history as "negative" without any details, like Vietnam and Puerto Rico and Cuba without debating those topics in details.


Who's the straw man immature here?
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Old 05-31-2015, 12:57 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,998,929 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post
I edited the part of the Mexican/American war.


What about Mexico's territory who was ALL desert and wasteland? Mexico lost the war and sold that land to the U.S.A. and it was the U.S.A and pioneers and settlers that invested in those territories that made it to the states what it is today.....looking at the corruption and culture DEFICIENCY in Mexico today you think California, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Nevada, Utah, Oregon and Idaho are better off under Mexican and the Drug Cartels rule? Have you been to Mexico????? and I don't mean the tourist Mexico, I mean the "real" Mexico?......and you feel guilty because of the results of the AMERICAN/Mexican war? ..........by the way, those lands the Natives took it from other Natives, Spain took it from the Natives, Mexican mestizos and light skin Spaniards who were in MEXICO controlling the colony took it from Spain and the U.S.A took it from Mexico by war and sale.....nothing new, this has been going on in every continent for centuries.....the U.S.A. didn't do any different than what has been going on in Africa, Asia, India, Europe for centuries or what the Natives in America did to other Natives.



for any American to feel guilty in how we became a great nation when other nations don't feel guilty of their history is pathetic and liberal propaganda at taxpayers dime.....I can't believe they pay teachers in colleges at taxpayers dime to teach this guilt and resentment to our youth.
I don't think Oregon and Idaho were ever "Mexican". Tho to be fair; the US should've taken ALL of Mexico in 1848, that's 1 part of our history I ain't proud over, just taking half of it.
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Old 05-31-2015, 01:02 PM
 
10,097 posts, read 7,534,996 times
Reputation: 5225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post
bad history for who?.......obviously millions have benefited in many countries by pushing the Natives and their backwards culture aside in the name of evolution and progress. It has been done from North America, Central America and South America.......I don't feel guilty because the Navajo Nation isn't running things in the U.S.A.



my post is to counter each and every "negative" point of American history you made but you don't want to debate both sides in details....you just drive by and throw topics of history as "negative" without any details, like Vietnam and Puerto Rico and Cuba without debating those topics in details. This is why NO one takes right wingers seriously.


Who's the straw man immature here?
Read my post again. There is nothing exceptional in US history. That was my only point. Not that the US is the best nation is the greatest country in the history of the world ever to exist in the world because the world sucks and only the USA can truly be called the best ever because the US is exceptionally unique among all other sucky nations that can't compare because we were blessed by God yada yada yada yada.

You never had a point to make in the first place. You were arguing with a phantom. A misguided belief that if someone inserts some nuance into US history then they're traitors.
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Old 05-31-2015, 01:04 PM
 
11,057 posts, read 3,754,725 times
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Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
I don't think Oregon and Idaho were ever "Mexican". Tho to be fair; the US should've taken ALL of Mexico in 1848, that's 1 part of our history I ain't proud over, just taking half of it.

part of Oregon and Idaho, back then those states didn't have today's state line.



All Mexico???? buy yourself an atlas..........so you think California, New Mexico, Arizona, Texas, Colorado and Utah are better off today under the government of Mexico and Drug Cartel rule?


you think under Mexican rule those U.S. states would have evolved and have the standard of living they have today that benefits millions of people including the 20 million illegals that escaped Mexican rule?


would you be proud of a country that is run by drug cartels and have no rule of law?
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