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Old 06-02-2015, 06:48 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
8,090 posts, read 4,713,766 times
Reputation: 2877

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post
Conquest??? the U.S. never conquest any country.
Lets understand something important. Outside of a few small isolated instances, the United States either stole all of its land directly, forced the sale of the land through war and the resulting treaties, or purchased the land from someone else who never really had a right to that land to begin with(Louisiana Purchase). In the case where we purchased it, to pretend that that implied actual ownership, would be like purchasing a stolen car from a thief, and then declaring that you are the rightful owner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post
Slavery was an institution brought to the new world by the old world and was also practiced by the Natives.....it ended quickly in the U.S.
Slavery was an institution which existed for one reason, because it was profitable. And ironically, the reason slavery ended, was also because it was profitable. Lincoln and the North did not fight a war to end slavery. And Lincoln would have gladly let the south rejoin the union, slavery intact, even after the Emancipation Proclamation. The war was fought between the industrial capitalism of the north(and especially the Northern bankers) and the agricultural capitalism of the south.

The fact that the Civil War ultimately abolished slavery is quite the "Happy coincidence".

As Frederick Douglass said of Lincoln....

"It must be admitted, truth compels me to admit, even here in the presence of the monument we have erected to his memory, Abraham Lincoln was not, in the fullest sense of the word, either our man or our model. In his interests, in his associations, in his habits of thought, and in his prejudices, he was a white man.

He was preeminently the white man’s President, entirely devoted to the welfare of white men. He was ready and willing at any time during the first years of his administration to deny, postpone, and sacrifice the rights of humanity in the colored people to promote the welfare of the white people of this country. In all his education and feeling he was an American of the Americans. He came into the Presidential chair upon one principle alone, namely, opposition to the extension of slavery. His arguments in furtherance of this policy had their motive and mainspring in his patriotic devotion to the interests of his own race. To protect, defend, and perpetuate slavery in the states where it existed Abraham Lincoln was not less ready than any other President to draw the sword of the nation. He was ready to execute all the supposed guarantees of the United States Constitution in favor of the slave system anywhere inside the slave states. He was willing to pursue, recapture, and send back the fugitive slave to his master, and to suppress a slave rising for liberty, though his guilty master were already in arms against the Government."


Oration in Memory of Abraham Lincoln | Teaching American History


Lastly, as much as people like to imagine some great and virtuous war whereby Americans "abolished slavery". Even if we disregard the fact that the war wasn't fought expressly for the purpose of abolishing slavery. There is two other problems. First, America was hardly the first country to abolish slavery. In fact, it was one of the last countries to abolish slavery. And secondly, it was the only country who had to actually fight a war to end slavery(not that that was the point of the war).


So no, anything related to slavery in regards to America cannot be easily dismissed as just being a relic of the "old continent". Especially since Britain abolished slavery in all its colonies more than three decades earlier than the United States, in 1833. So attempting to "gloss over" slavery as having nothing to do with America, is to live in a state of denial.

Of course, the real reason we even had slavery, and continued to support it, was not because Americans were such evil scumbags. It was really the fault of capitalism, and the role the south played in producing the cotton and other basic materials needed for the rapid industrialization of the Northern states and Western Europe during the mid-1800's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post
put things under perspective, the U.S. for being a young republic compare to the rest of the world has evolved to a great country like no other.
First, the United States is one of the oldest Republics. The United States effectively invented the modern Republic. With that said, I don't know what you mean by "evolved". The United States largely just copied the British System of government.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America...(economic_plan)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDyDxgJuaDY

Its why the United States tied its entire economy to the British Empire all the way into World War II, and why Britain now assists America in everything it does around the world. It is the "Anglo-American Empire". Which has become almost entirely a financial empire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post
Racism and discrimination was practiced by the majorities against the minorities of all countries for centuries way before the U.S.A was founded. You think if blacks were the majority there wouldn't be any racism and discrimination against whites or brown people or towards orientals as minorities? the U.S. inherited that from the world and we have reformed it faster than any other country who are a lot older than the U.S.A and still the liberals complain and have resentment about our history and what our country stands for.
Racism and discrimination are inherent to human nature. It is just a relic of our "tribal" origins. I'm not overly concerned about either of them. With that said, the attack against racism was and is entirely economic. It is about "integration" for the sake of economic growth.

If you look at the history of Civil Rights, going all the way back to Plessy v. Ferguson. You'll see how it was the economic interests who wanted to overturn the "will of the people", because it stood in the way of their profits. And if you understand the supposed "Constitutional" basis for the Civil Rights act, it is based on the "Commerce clause", which argues that discrimination in public accommodations places a burden on trade.

Basically, the government wants to destroy racism so that people can spend their money wherever they want, and to work wherever they want, because that benefits the economy. It has absolutely nothing to do with the people themselves. Though many people still believe otherwise.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post
How women had limited rights in the past , also was inherited from the world. It was tradition and culture that males were more valuable than females...from Europe, Asia, India, Africa......even the natives in the Americas had the same values, they gave more importance to males than females in the tribes and family traditions. European Civilization were better towards women than other cultures by far.
Yes, everything bad about America is someone else's fault. Everything good about America, we did it all single-handedly because we are so great and wonderful.


The truth is, there is basically nothing exceptional about America, at least not anymore. The only thing truly exceptional about America, is Thomas Jefferson, and Jeffersonian Democracy.

All of those rights and freedoms, weren't a result of people like Alexander Hamilton, who wanted George Washington to be our King, and at least wanted the president to appoint all the governors of every state. These scumbags like Hamilton did everything he could to turn us into Britain, and he(and those who followed his example) did eventually turn us into Britain.

What made America exceptional, is Thomas Jefferson, and his belief in freedom, and individual sovereignty. The "Natural rights" of man(life, liberty, pursuit of happiness/property).

In terms of politics, the closest man to Thomas Jefferson in modern times, is Ron Paul. Yet, most Americans seem to think Ron Paul is a sort of joke. A lot of people think Ron Paul, and his Jeffersonian ideas, are downright crazy, or even destructive.


Fundamentally, Americans don't want to be free. Americans hate freedom. At least most Americans. There are still a few Americans who still hold out hope. Is it any surprise that the Americans who speak the most of freedom, do practically nothing but quote Thomas Jefferson?


Which is why there has been a relentless assault in recent years against the founding fathers, and especially Thomas Jefferson. By making Jefferson and the other founders into evil racists and slave-owners. The goal is to have us turn our backs entirely on the founding of this nation, and the principles which were established by this nation.


Modern America is an absolute joke. At least, most of modern America. The only places where America is still decent, and where people still try to hold onto its Jeffersonian ideals, are almost exclusively in rural areas. And mostly the old farmers.

The urban areas of America are complete materialistic, shallow garbage, and getting worse every day. Which is why I get so frustrated with those older people, and the people who live in rural areas, who imagine themselves as "patriots". And who blindly defend this nation, regardless of what it does. Seemingly oblivious to the fact that, the values in rural America are under attack, and will inevitably be destroyed by the ever-increasing power of the cities and the centralized government.

This nation has been completely hijacked, and the people who should be fighting hardest against her, for some reason, are her greatest supporters. Please stop. Open your eyes, and try to understand what is actually happening, and what actually needs to be done.

Last edited by Redshadowz; 06-02-2015 at 06:57 AM..
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Old 06-02-2015, 06:50 AM
 
20,976 posts, read 16,263,511 times
Reputation: 10270
I am extraordinarily proud of our history.
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Old 06-02-2015, 07:04 AM
 
Location: Plymouth Meeting, PA.
4,012 posts, read 2,057,349 times
Reputation: 1923
does any western country have any righteous foundin??

sounds like this thread is another "hate American because....".

had enough of that crap in college from the LWNJ profs!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
I know that most countries in the western hemisphere have a similar history as far as the removal of their native peoples(and slavery) but my issue has always been with those Americans who want to romanticize about the U.S having some righteous founding.
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Old 06-02-2015, 08:39 AM
 
20,611 posts, read 13,005,852 times
Reputation: 5905
Quote:
Originally Posted by FKD19124 View Post
does any western country have any righteous foundin??

sounds like this thread is another "hate American because....".

had enough of that crap in college from the LWNJ profs!
Ain't just "western" countries. ALL countries have somewhat dirty pasts, don't let anybody fool you there. Look at China, it grabbing Tibet and it STILL wanting Taiwan.
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Old 06-05-2015, 11:02 AM
 
Location: in the mountains
1,372 posts, read 806,423 times
Reputation: 2058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post
quit smoking crack or get a refund from whatever left wing liberal institution taught you this bullshiat!


The Natives had a bill of rights and a separation of powers? LMAO!!!


what's the next bullshiat they sold you, that Henry Ford stole the idea of the auto from the natives.....the natives invented the train, electricity and telephone and the evil white man stole it from them.
Wow, the ignorance is strong with this one.....
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Old 06-05-2015, 12:26 PM
 
29,363 posts, read 26,317,093 times
Reputation: 10270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
By making Jefferson and the other founders into evil racists and slave-owners.
It's easy to portray Jefferson as a slaveholder and a racist because that's what in fact he was.

That doesn't mean he wasn't also a great political philosopher and a key founder of a great nation.

In my opinion our best course is not to diminish or try to skate around our flaws, but to acknowledge and learn from them.
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Old 06-05-2015, 12:35 PM
 
Location: The analog world
17,086 posts, read 9,864,636 times
Reputation: 22744
I prefer to express my feelings about being American as gratitude rather than pride.
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Old 06-05-2015, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Arizona
13,090 posts, read 7,810,719 times
Reputation: 6971
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
It's easy to portray Jefferson as a slaveholder and a racist because that's what in fact he was.

That doesn't mean he wasn't also a great political philosopher and a key founder of a great nation.

In my opinion our best course is not to diminish or try to skate around our flaws, but to acknowledge and learn from them.
Very well said.
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Old 06-05-2015, 05:13 PM
 
1,068 posts, read 736,229 times
Reputation: 1025
Crème bulee, just saw your post, America is a great country and so is 99% of its population, are you jealous of it? Im British by the way
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Old 06-05-2015, 07:36 PM
 
Location: East St. Paul 651 forever (or North St. Paul) .
2,869 posts, read 2,829,660 times
Reputation: 1446
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post

In my opinion our best course is not to diminish or try to skate around our flaws, but to acknowledge and learn from them.

We all know what that means.
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