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Old 05-29-2015, 07:22 AM
 
39,959 posts, read 24,197,286 times
Reputation: 12546

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDriver View Post
Not at all - but if you found out that a star of a reality show was charged with attempted murder at age 14, would you want him staring on a "family-oriented show"?

14 isn't exactly 7 either - in some states a 14 year old is old enough to marry with parental consent.
He's hardly the "star" of the show. The boys seem peripheral at best. Even when TLC is filming his family, they seem to focus more on Anna and the kids.

 
Old 05-29-2015, 07:44 AM
 
Location: land of quail, bunnies, and red tail hawks
1,513 posts, read 3,079,470 times
Reputation: 3525
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDriver View Post
What makes you think he's repented simply because he said so (only after the scandal was brought to light)?.
Honestly, I have no idea if he's truly repented. I'm not inside his head or his heart. However, the 2006 police report details that Jim Bob and some of the victims stated Josh had repented and apologized. There hadn't been another incident in over three years, nor do we know of one since then. He reportedly told not only his future wife but also her parents that he had repented. Someone has stated that the family has been evaluated every six months. Apparently, there has been no reportable incidents.

It seems to me you wanted him to publicly come forward as a 14 year old. Deny it all you want, but people want this family held to a different standard than they would want for their own.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDriver View Post
Looks to me like you're suggesting that this is part of an agenda to persecute Christians - as opposed to a non-partisan objection to child molestation.
Puh-leeeze . . . If this were a non-partisan objection to child molestation, people would not be making derogatory statements against Christianity, conservatives, or Republicans. Neither would the media be posting pictures of Josh with various Republican presidential hopefuls.



Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDriver View Post
Also I'm not sure what liberals or non-Christians you're referring to - but I doubt the majority would say they don't have standards. Many of the Founders were deists but had a strong set of Enlightenment values that they believed in for example. So did the Classical philosophers.

It sounds like you're just using a false dichotomy here - you're suggesting that there's no alternative to fundamentalist Christian values other than simply "having no values at all". There are a lot of people, including Christians who aren't fundamentalists who'd object to the Duggard's values for a variety of reasons (such as them teaching their kids science denial, and raising them in away which leaves them sheltered and unequpped with the life skills needed to live independently outside of their fundamentalist sect), not simply because "they have no values of their own".
It might surprise you to learn that there are plenty of fundamentalists who disagree with the Duggars' lifestyle. A long time ago, I was part of a homeschooling forum (not C-D), that often discussed the Duggars because some of the participants also had large families and similar values. However, some people found cause for concern. One family had even met the Duggars for a play date in the park. I don't remember exactly what was said, but I got the gist that the Duggars weren't their cup of tea. I don't mean to imply there was anything sinister afoot, just that we all have our own ideas about some right and wrong ways to raise children. Some people mesh well, while others do not.

I don't know how sheltered the Duggar children are because I don't know them personally. I don't know what their church teaches, nor do I know how their homeschooling is conducted. I do, however, know that many people who disagree with similar lifestyles distort various aspects, either through intentional malice or through ignorance.

I do know families in very strict sects of Christianity that definitely go off the deep end (IMNSHO) and allow their children no freedom, expect their girls to dress frumpily and in even longer skirts, and have a narrow view of education and expectations for their children. Their children generally look miserable, which is not something I can say of the times I have seen the Duggars. I know Amish families that have a wider and more joyful view of life, religion, and education. As a self-identified Christian fundamentalist, I take exception to any family that raises their children with such a narrow view of life, whether they be Christian, atheist, conservative, liberal, or whatever.

If one thinks his beliefs, standards, and ideas have merit, then he shouldn't be afraid of opposing viewpoints. If the viewpoint is valid, it can withstand rigorous debate and testing.

-------

I'm afraid I didn't express very well my statement about liberals and non-Christians having no standards because it has been awhile since I last heard the argument, and it changes with the individuals making it. They might admit to having standards, yet they believe themselves immune to the label of hypocrite since they're supposedly not the ones going around telling others how to live their lives. Yet, many of them are doing exactly that.
 
Old 05-29-2015, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Barrington
45,423 posts, read 33,742,630 times
Reputation: 15106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
THIS

Without doubt the best post of the thread. Way too many people are approaching this story with an agenda instead of rationally looking at the whole picture. You can dislike, even hate the Duggars, but at least be honest that your outrage is more about disliking them (or more specifically their moral/political veiws) instead of acting like a 14 year-old who touched his sisters inappropriately is the worst pedophile to walk the Earth or deluding yourself that every other parent would have immediately marched their child to the police station in the same situation.


Frankly, I can't imagine most parents would haul their 13-14 year old kid into the Police station to be charged, under similar circumstances, regardless of religious beliefs and/or politics.
 
Old 05-29-2015, 08:03 AM
 
1,041 posts, read 1,360,550 times
Reputation: 1283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtn. States Resident View Post
Luzette,

Another good post. I'll try to rep you again.

Did you see my post that eight more sponsors have removed themselves from the show. I posted that link, I think somewhere between pages 90-94. A few I can remember off the top of my head: Ace Hardware, one of the paints (maybe Sherwin-Williams, but I can't remember for sure), Pizza Hut, Allstate Insurance, Con-Agra, an Iced Tea I can't remember the name and Crayola among others. The link has the additional 8. That should be 12 sponsors who have canceled. On another site I read Party ???? I can't think of the second name.

What matters to me about this is concerned adults are letting sponsors know on Facebook, via Twitter and by phone. I have to give it to these companies for being responsive to customers/adults who don't think everything is okay in that household.

MSR

I'm so glad these companies have pulled their ads. They're being responsible which is something TLC doesn't seem to comprehend. Let's hope there will be enough pressure put on the network to cancel this show for good.
 
Old 05-29-2015, 08:05 AM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
14,610 posts, read 10,509,823 times
Reputation: 19738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueberry View Post
It seems to me you wanted him to publicly come forward as a 14 year old. Deny it all you want, but people want this family held to a different standard than they would want for their own
Yes, they do.

You don't stop wanting to protect your child from harm, real or perceived, because they have done something wrong. Parents lied to me all the time about their child's homework because they didn't want them to "suffer" getting a zero on a paper worth .4% of their grade. The research indicates that most parents to not report sibling sexual abuse to authorities. Most reports are a result of victims telling it to third parties, who report it. I have been that one making the offical report before.
__________________
When I post in bold red that is moderator action and, per the TOS, can only be discussed through Direct Message.Moderator - Asia, Kentucky, Lexington, and Louisville
 
Old 05-29-2015, 08:10 AM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
14,610 posts, read 10,509,823 times
Reputation: 19738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luzette View Post
I'm so glad these companies have pulled their ads. They're being responsible which is something TLC doesn't seem to comprehend. Let's hope there will be enough pressure put on the network to cancel this show for good.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with responsibility, it has to do with thinking if the public associates their brand with the family it will make people feel negatively about their product and therefore not purchase it. If TLC pulls the program it won't be because they are being responsible, it will be because either the rating are going to go down, or more importantly, that advertisers won't pay for commercial time when it's airing.
__________________
When I post in bold red that is moderator action and, per the TOS, can only be discussed through Direct Message.Moderator - Asia, Kentucky, Lexington, and Louisville
 
Old 05-29-2015, 08:20 AM
 
Location: land of quail, bunnies, and red tail hawks
1,513 posts, read 3,079,470 times
Reputation: 3525
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlowerPower00 View Post
People are not looking to deny Christians their rights.
Hang out on the "Religion and Spirituality" forum for awhile. I've not participated over there in several years, yet during my time there I encountered participants who wanted to see children taken away from Christian parents, claiming that religious teaching was child abuse. Others wanted to physically torment Christians who have the nerve to knock on their doors. Some thought Christian ideas have no place in the public market place, while many believed Christians should be banned from politics. There was also the thought that publishers should be banned from printing Bibles and other Christian material. Those are just some of the discussions I remember from that forum.

Also, keep your ears open to what's happening in education, especially in colleges and universities. Christian speech is often banned at all levels. Young kids aren't allowed to take Bibles to school, draw religiously themed pictures, write an essay from a Christian viewpoint, or share their beliefs with others, despite the courts ruling time and again that children have the right to free expression. In higher education, professors badger students who don't agree with them, and encourage others to shout out Christian ideas by either ridicule or sheer volume (as opposed to a reasoned discussion). Christian speakers and clubs have been banned from many campuses, and Christian events are often held to such ridiculous standards that organizers are hamstrung. I recently saw an article where an academic was advocating that all med school students be forced to conduct abortions.

If you're still not convinced anyone is looking to deny Christians their rights, look at recent court rulings and various lawsuits designed to do exactly that. Christian businesses are being denied the right to free association, and they're being fined for taking first amendment stands. They're being forced to act against their conscience, even when there are other business nearby that are willing to accommodate the "disenfranchised." Lastly, there is a move afoot to prevent Christians from reading and preaching about certain Scriptures within the confines of their churches. That's the ticket! Let's criminalize the parts we disagree with. -- Such movements have nothing to do with discrimination and everything to do silencing Christian critics.
 
Old 05-29-2015, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Scrapple country
1,500 posts, read 1,247,396 times
Reputation: 4321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luzette View Post
This is why I don't understand how TLC decision makers can look themselves in the mirror. Whether it's Honey Boo Boo or this disgusting Duggar clan they've cashed in for years on showcasing these dysfunctional people trying to present this as something that is charming and normal.
Like many other things in life, TLC is purely profit-driven. They are about as principled in their approach to programming as the company behind the Jerry Spring show. Honestly, I have more respect for the producers of the Springer show because at least they're not trying to truss up their product as something as lofty as "the learning channel".
 
Old 05-29-2015, 08:40 AM
 
2,324 posts, read 1,329,687 times
Reputation: 4504
The harder they thump that bible, the more hypocritical they are and the more skeletons they have to hide
 
Old 05-29-2015, 08:41 AM
 
Location: land of quail, bunnies, and red tail hawks
1,513 posts, read 3,079,470 times
Reputation: 3525
Oldhag1, I admire you and others on the front line. It must be gut wrenching to make such a report, knowing you have a student who has been hurt.
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