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Old 06-05-2015, 10:46 AM
 
12,452 posts, read 10,377,857 times
Reputation: 17247

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I was just talking to my mom about this yesterday, and she said she got a bad/weird vibe from the Duggars the first time she watched their show years ago. Oddly enough, she would always wonder aloud if the oldest son (Josh) was having sex with the mom. Sick I know - but really not that far off as we know now. That's just how odd and uncomfortable she found this family. She thought that could be a possibility, and look.

I don't know how anybody can see the Duggar's beliefs as normal Christianity and defend them on any level. I see too many "they're being persecuted by the liberals and media for being Christians!", "they are a loving Christian family with great values" posts all over the internet about them. They are NOT normal Christians. They are members of a fundamental, extremist cult. They do not let their daughters wear clothes that show anything above the ankle and below the collarbone. They do not let their children date. Instead, they "court" and cannot hug until they are engaged, kiss until their wedding. They believe women to be nothing more than baby-making machines, and hold their older children responsible for raising the younger ones. They do not believe strongly in education, as they homeschool and teach these beliefs and lessons based heavily on the bible, and also do not believe in sending their children to accredited, real colleges. Rather, they send them to unaccredited Christian "colleges." Their children seem to not associate with anyone other than families like their own - like the Bates family for anyone who has seen a few episodes of the show. Even Anna Duggar (Josh's wife) comes from a similar extremely religious family from Florida. The children all share a room, split into 2 rooms by sex, regardless of age. One great bedroom with multiple beds and little nooks and crannies shared by an age range of what, 2 to 24, for the girls? This is extremism. Their beliefs and their lives are blatant examples of extremism.

This is not "normal" Christianity. Now, they are welcome to believe how and what they want, this is America, but let's be real here. What I described is how their life is, and it has clearly been harmful to their children. And at the point it becomes harmful, whatever that may be, they deserve criticism. This criticism is not directed at Christianity or conservatism as a whole, or at least it should not be. It's directed at religious extremism. I will say it again: the Duggars are members of a cult.

And this post is coming from a Republican Catholic. It's not about religion, it's about a cult with poor values and terrible hypocrisy and decision making.

 
Old 06-05-2015, 10:58 AM
 
Location: La Mesa Aka The Table
7,433 posts, read 7,965,541 times
Reputation: 8440
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post

And this post is coming from a Republican Catholic. It's not about religion, it's about a cult with poor values and terrible hypocrisy and decision making.
Yep!
Some of these same people defending the Duggar's are some of the same people that came to Paula Deen's defense
 
Old 06-05-2015, 11:15 AM
 
58 posts, read 41,695 times
Reputation: 36
I believe Josh is sorry for what he has done. Would I allow him around my children knowing what has done, boys or girls, nope. I don't know what the answer is for this except for the mom to STOP pumping out babies and expect the older siblings to take care of them. That is not their job, its mom and dads job. I am a Christian and have been through abuse at the hands of a sibling. Not till years later did I forgive that sibling and knew that he was deeply grieved by what he had done to me. Josh needs to show a lot more repentance and have some form of punishment, right now all he's barely gotten is a slap on the wrist. And what about the girls he hurt, they may need counseling for years to come and dear brother and mom and dad should have to pay for it.
 
Old 06-05-2015, 11:42 AM
 
5,927 posts, read 5,400,556 times
Reputation: 10580
If there is one thing that has disturbed me most about this whole thing is how far people will go to defend "their side" at all costs. Even for something like this.

The police reports are VERY clear. There is no ambiguity. In black and white, it states:

1. Jim Bob Duggar was first told of the molestation by ONE OF THE VICTIMS. Josh confessed it was true.
2. Later that year (after doing nothing other than talking to Josh about it) ONE OF THE VICTMS told the parents he did it again. Again Josh confesses, this time admitting to touching the 5 year old more than once. Parents handle it in-house. Josh is not removed from the home. No one gets counseling.
3. The following year a third victim comes forward to the parents (I believe this is the who was not his sister?) Family sends Josh to friend to do construction for 3 months. At this point he had been molesting young girls for OVER A YEAR. All of the girls are PRE-PUBESCENT.
4. The year after that they finally tell their church what happened. This means two years after this started they finally went outside the house for help. This is also the year their TV show premiered.
5. The year after THAT they take Josh to the "family friend" cop who gives Josh a stern taking too. They did not take him to the station and fill out a report. They called up a friend. No police report was filed. This is THREE YEARS after they were first told of Josh's problems. Apparently the behavior had not stopped if they felt the need to get someone to "sternly talk" to him.
6. At the four year mark the family is scheduled to appear on Oprah. Someone tips Oprah off that Josh is a molester. Oprah calls the cops and refuses to air the previously taped interview.
7. A first Daddy Duggar lawyers up and refuses to let Josh talk to the cops. Eventually the child services department takes over and Jim Bob lies that he got the kids counseling, which his wife rebuts later when interviewed alone. Since it's about 5 years later at this point and they can't get any proof that Josh has done anything within the last three years (really, this means one of the girls would have to have told on him) they have to close the case. But the records are not sealed because Josh in no longer a minor at this point plus no charges were filed. A second report is filed by a second law enforcement agency, and that one does not have to be legally sealed either.
8. Rumors swirl for years until In Touch requests the records through the Freedom of Information Act. The police chief checks with legal before he fills the request, gets the okay and gives them the file with the names redacted. He also notifies the family that the records have been requested. All hell breaks loose.


These people are blatantly lying about what happened. THEY LIED. It's all in the police report. They know the girls knew what happened (they did not "sleep through it" nor were they "too young to realize") The kids did not get counseling. Josh did not confess on his own. They did not willingly take him to the police. If he is now "cured" it is not due to any kind of interaction with anything close to a counselor certified in sex offenses. They knew the report was coming out. They knew the release of the report was legal. THEY ARE LYING. THEY ARE LYING ABOUT CHILD MOLESTATION IN ORDER TO PROTECT THE ABUSER AND THEMSELVES.

Yet, people are still out there defending these folks because "*******s" and "lena durham" and "anti Christians" and "gotcha media" whatever else. As if that changes any of the facts of this case! What happened happened and it is very hard to defend. What in the world are people thinking here? Are folks so blinded with hatred for the 'enemy' that you are willing to give a pass to.... THIS???? A teenager fingering little girls in their sleep (and there was at least once incident while the child was approached while awake and resisting, she was cornered in a laundry room) and his parents lying about it and y'all are fighting hard for their honor?

The same people doing this are the people who are (justifiably) incensed about left leaning people who ignore Bill Clinton's rape-y past. Just let that one marinate. You all just became what you hate.
 
Old 06-05-2015, 11:43 AM
 
1,041 posts, read 1,360,934 times
Reputation: 1283
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
I was just talking to my mom about this yesterday, and she said she got a bad/weird vibe from the Duggars the first time she watched their show years ago. Oddly enough, she would always wonder aloud if the oldest son (Josh) was having sex with the mom. Sick I know - but really not that far off as we know now. That's just how odd and uncomfortable she found this family. She thought that could be a possibility, and look.

I don't know how anybody can see the Duggar's beliefs as normal Christianity and defend them on any level. I see too many "they're being persecuted by the liberals and media for being Christians!", "they are a loving Christian family with great values" posts all over the internet about them. They are NOT normal Christians. They are members of a fundamental, extremist cult. They do not let their daughters wear clothes that show anything above the ankle and below the collarbone. They do not let their children date. Instead, they "court" and cannot hug until they are engaged, kiss until their wedding. They believe women to be nothing more than baby-making machines, and hold their older children responsible for raising the younger ones. They do not believe strongly in education, as they homeschool and teach these beliefs and lessons based heavily on the bible, and also do not believe in sending their children to accredited, real colleges. Rather, they send them to unaccredited Christian "colleges." Their children seem to not associate with anyone other than families like their own - like the Bates family for anyone who has seen a few episodes of the show. Even Anna Duggar (Josh's wife) comes from a similar extremely religious family from Florida. The children all share a room, split into 2 rooms by sex, regardless of age. One great bedroom with multiple beds and little nooks and crannies shared by an age range of what, 2 to 24, for the girls? This is extremism. Their beliefs and their lives are blatant examples of extremism.

This is not "normal" Christianity. Now, they are welcome to believe how and what they want, this is America, but let's be real here. What I described is how their life is, and it has clearly been harmful to their children. And at the point it becomes harmful, whatever that may be, they deserve criticism. This criticism is not directed at Christianity or conservatism as a whole, or at least it should not be. It's directed at religious extremism. I will say it again: the Duggars are members of a cult.

And this post is coming from a Republican Catholic. It's not about religion, it's about a cult with poor values and terrible hypocrisy and decision making.
Thank you for this post! You're right on the mark, and this is the crux of what has been happening in the country for a very long time now. We need more NORMAL Christians to speak out against this fundamentalist strain that keeps trying to take over everything. I was raised Christian myself so am not foreign to the faith. The Duggars are not and never were "mainstream." What has finally come to light is the dark side of Jim and Michelle's sick twisting of Biblical belief. These people are mentally ill and have needed help for a long time. It's just awful what they've done to their girls raising them to have no options other than marriage and non-stop baby making.
 
Old 06-05-2015, 11:47 AM
 
4,539 posts, read 4,785,901 times
Reputation: 3481
"Christian" is a code word for cults and kooky religions
 
Old 06-05-2015, 12:08 PM
 
12,452 posts, read 10,377,857 times
Reputation: 17247
Quote:
Originally Posted by SandyJet View Post
"Christian" is a code word for cults and kooky religions
Yes, and it's insulting to normal Christians and makes us all look bad. Characterizing the Duggars as "Christians" insults me, as a Catholic. They are NOT normal, as I said. They do NOT hold normal, mainstream views and values of Christianity. The vast majority of Christians do not force their daughters to cover up, not allow them to date, even "court" while being supervised, the vast majority of Christians are not home schooled and then sent to non-accredited Christian colleges rather than actual universities where you could get a true education. The vast majority of Christians are not living at home, sharing bedrooms with their youngest siblings, until they find a spouse, taking care of their little siblings while their parents gallivant around spreading homophobic, hypocritical BS.

Nobody should be associating the Duggars with Christianity, on either side of the debate - pro or anti-Duggar. They aren't normal, usual examples of Christians by any means. Sure, they are using an extreme form of Christianity, interpreting the bible in a specific way just like jihadists interpret the Quran in a specific way to fit their agenda, but like terrorists aren't the average Muslim, the Duggars are not the average Christian. They do not and should not embody or represent Christians everywhere. People who think the Duggars represent typical Christians and use them to insult the whole religion are making a mistake.
 
Old 06-05-2015, 12:08 PM
 
9,173 posts, read 7,019,504 times
Reputation: 11145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinawina View Post
If there is one thing that has disturbed me most about this whole thing is how far people will go to defend "their side" at all costs. Even for something like this.

The police reports are VERY clear. There is no ambiguity. In black and white, it states:

1. Jim Bob Duggar was first told of the molestation by ONE OF THE VICTIMS. Josh confessed it was true.
2. Later that year (after doing nothing other than talking to Josh about it) ONE OF THE VICTMS told the parents he did it again. Again Josh confesses, this time admitting to touching the 5 year old more than once. Parents handle it in-house. Josh is not removed from the home. No one gets counseling.
3. The following year a third victim comes forward to the parents (I believe this is the who was not his sister?) Family sends Josh to friend to do construction for 3 months. At this point he had been molesting young girls for OVER A YEAR. All of the girls are PRE-PUBESCENT.
4. The year after that they finally tell their church what happened. This means two years after this started they finally went outside the house for help. This is also the year their TV show premiered.
5. The year after THAT they take Josh to the "family friend" cop who gives Josh a stern taking too. They did not take him to the station and fill out a report. They called up a friend. No police report was filed. This is THREE YEARS after they were first told of Josh's problems. Apparently the behavior had not stopped if they felt the need to get someone to "sternly talk" to him.
6. At the four year mark the family is scheduled to appear on Oprah. Someone tips Oprah off that Josh is a molester. Oprah calls the cops and refuses to air the previously taped interview.
7. A first Daddy Duggar lawyers up and refuses to let Josh talk to the cops. Eventually the child services department takes over and Jim Bob lies that he got the kids counseling, which his wife rebuts later when interviewed alone. Since it's about 5 years later at this point and they can't get any proof that Josh has done anything within the last three years (really, this means one of the girls would have to have told on him) they have to close the case. But the records are not sealed because Josh in no longer a minor at this point plus no charges were filed. A second report is filed by a second law enforcement agency, and that one does not have to be legally sealed either.
8. Rumors swirl for years until In Touch requests the records through the Freedom of Information Act. The police chief checks with legal before he fills the request, gets the okay and gives them the file with the names redacted. He also notifies the family that the records have been requested. All hell breaks loose.


These people are blatantly lying about what happened. THEY LIED. It's all in the police report. They know the girls knew what happened (they did not "sleep through it" nor were they "too young to realize") The kids did not get counseling. Josh did not confess on his own. They did not willingly take him to the police. If he is now "cured" it is not due to any kind of interaction with anything close to a counselor certified in sex offenses. They knew the report was coming out. They knew the release of the report was legal. THEY ARE LYING. THEY ARE LYING ABOUT CHILD MOLESTATION IN ORDER TO PROTECT THE ABUSER AND THEMSELVES.

Yet, people are still out there defending these folks because "*******s" and "lena durham" and "anti Christians" and "gotcha media" whatever else. As if that changes any of the facts of this case! What happened happened and it is very hard to defend. What in the world are people thinking here? Are folks so blinded with hatred for the 'enemy' that you are willing to give a pass to.... THIS???? A teenager fingering little girls in their sleep (and there was at least once incident while the child was approached while awake and resisting, she was cornered in a laundry room) and his parents lying about it and y'all are fighting hard for their honor?

The same people doing this are the people who are (justifiably) incensed about left leaning people who ignore Bill Clinton's rape-y past. Just let that one marinate. You all just became what you hate.
Thank you Tina. If you want to defend the Duggars, start here and try it.
 
Old 06-05-2015, 12:10 PM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
29,544 posts, read 16,392,692 times
Reputation: 22166
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspistol View Post
Um, yes it was mentioned very specifically, RingoDoeBlow. They even speculated that the cop was trying to gain some points for early parole by discussing it with the press now. Did you even watch the interview RingoDoeBlow?

*See how stupid I look mocking your name? You should take note of that.
You DO know Ringo is not my real name, right? I take note of you calling yourself stupid.

Forgive me if I missed it - was it mentioned that this Officer was in jail for Child Porn? Cause I definitely missed THAT.

Do you believe that the Duggars went down the police station and 'just happened' to confess to Hutchins? That Hutchins just 'happened' to be the cop on duty?

Because that is what they said but that is not what the reports say.

Bottom line, pretty much no one believes that their televised attempt at whitewashing these 'incidents' is the truth.

Except those blinded by the fact that they portray a perfect Christian family on television.

That said, I think this family could recover - just not on television.

Maybe after a few years ~ we could expect a 'where are they now' kinda thing. But reality tv is simply not equipped for child molestation discussions. It is not a place for a family to heal. Mainly reality TV seems to tear families apart.
 
Old 06-05-2015, 12:44 PM
 
31,988 posts, read 16,438,391 times
Reputation: 17153
Quote:
Originally Posted by rigizug View Post
Actually in the interview, Jim Bob said he did not know the officer that was later charged with porn crime. He is not a friend. They just walked into the,police station and was given this officer to talk to. It seems very strange that with Jim Bob's connections he ended up with an officer he claims he did not know to discuss his son's molestion issues.
Jim Bob appears to have lied. I know, hard to believe, isn't it?

Quote:
Hutchens, now serving a 56-year prison sentence, told In Touch otherwise:

He said he knew Jim Bob well from his job and had even taught a couple of classes to car dealerships with him. In addition, Hutchens -– who was not promised anything in return for his interview and told only that it was part of an investigation -– said that Jim Bob specifically sought him out to talk to Josh.
Asked who initially contacted him for the meeting, Hutchens said: “Jim Bob did.” He then explained: “He called me by phone – he just said he needed to talk with me about a matter, he didn’t explain what he got there.” That interview was conducted before Jim Bob’s comments were aired.
In Touch Hits Back at Duggars: Releasing Records Was Legal, and BTW, You Lied a Lot | Mediaite

But I guess he'll repent and all will be well with the Lord again.
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