U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 05-24-2015, 08:15 AM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
29,544 posts, read 16,392,692 times
Reputation: 22166

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtn. States Resident View Post
Excellent post Minervah. The only thing I would add is all the Duggar children and parents need counseling. The brothers who didn't abuse have different questions and thoughts than the girls. I personally don't care if they say they have grown closer to God or Jesus ( different ones say different names), but that isn't enough in this situation. What NEW ACTIONS did the parents and Josh do for Josh's victims because of their spiritual growth?

It's a nice idea for some agencies who specialize in sexual abuse to offer to work with the Duggars. I feel strongly that JB and M should pay full price for every counseling session. Can you imagine how powerful it would be to those girls to know they were worth "Full price, not a discounted or charity rate?" JB and M made money showing their kids' lives throughout the world. Between their health insurance and payments for the show, books, pictures etc. they can afford it. If not, then Arkansas Family Services needs to assess and possibly place children elsewhere so they can get counseling.

The problem with JB & M getting counseling for their daughters is there is no legal or other entity that can force the issue now. Maybe that is one thing TLC could do. TLC could state all the Duggars have to be in treatment until released by the therapist. Then, and only after qualified therapists wrote TLC a letter as each member completed this stage of counseling, as tune ups are needed later, then TLC could explore the possibility of less than a dozen shows to air no sooner than 2017 about a Christian family doing the hardest work of their lives: Creating and maintaining healthy boundaries and high self esteem in their victimized family after therapy for incest. Josh couldn't be a part of the show.

Do you think they would do it? I'd volunteer to help TLC find qualified therapists for all. But weekly individual sessions for everyone and weekly group for those victimized would be required. And the Duggar family is not a therapeutic group!!!

Maybe we know now a more accurate reason the Duggars made special Christmas treats for all law enforcement and fire fighters in their area.

MSR
it would be my hope that each and every one of their children could receive qualified counseling. I doubt that the parents will encourage that or allow it. If family services could force it - that's the only way it will happen.

Fortunately or unfortunately, I do not think their lives will ever be the same. For some of the children, that may be for the better.

Is this the tip of the iceberg? Or was it just confined to this one boy and his victims?

Someone in this family will write a book on down the line.

 
Old 05-24-2015, 08:29 AM
 
3,561 posts, read 3,124,087 times
Reputation: 10658
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus View Post
Just stirring bad memories from the past? Old news?

Honestly, it's quite likely these girls, at least the ones old enough to remember, have not forgotten, and that it still torments them in some way or another prior to it coming out in public, to this day.

I don't think they've much choice in whether Josh or their parents are involved and active in their family.
I don't doubt that the girls remember. Does it torment them? I don't know. I hope not. It's quite possibly something the girls do not want to talk about...counseling or no counseling. I think it'd be more heartbreaking to have a lot of strangers poking in your business and causing problems. The girls may be comfortable with the way things are.
 
Old 05-24-2015, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Camberville
11,958 posts, read 16,671,393 times
Reputation: 19473
Quote:
Originally Posted by christiner81 View Post
have his sisters said anything in his defense? i hear all these politicians and parents and religious people coming out in support of him, forgive him, etc etc. But what about the victims of his "childhood mistake?" any comments from them??

+10 to minervah's comments
I doubt we will hear from them, and if we do, anything we hear will be very carefully worded to fit the Duggar party line. That is, unless one of the girls breaks from the family.

What is most concerning is that if there are any more victims, they likely come from this world where they are very distinctly cut off from the world. No unmonitored access to TV or the internet. There's a good chance that any additional victims have no idea that this has come out because this culture would rather hide it then seek justice for their (female) victims.
 
Old 05-24-2015, 09:13 AM
 
2,288 posts, read 2,603,010 times
Reputation: 7013
MSR, I wish you could be put in charge to help the victims.

I'm wondering about the non-family victim. I assume she lives in the same type of family as the Duggar's, as she was allowed into their home. Was she also possibly led to believe it was her fault, since she's female? Didn't her parents want Josh punished for what he did to their daughter? Why would they protect the Duggar's golden son, at the determent of their own child? It makes me imagine all types of things, like were they bought off.
 
Old 05-24-2015, 09:18 AM
 
2,288 posts, read 2,603,010 times
Reputation: 7013
Quote:
Originally Posted by charolastra00 View Post
I doubt we will hear from them, and if we do, anything we hear will be very carefully worded to fit the Duggar party line. That is, unless one of the girls breaks from the family.

What is most concerning is that if there are any more victims, they likely come from this world where they are very distinctly cut off from the world. No unmonitored access to TV or the internet. There's a good chance that any additional victims have no idea that this has come out because this culture would rather hide it then seek justice for their (female) victims.

I agree. I believe in the cockroach theory, and it worries me about how many victims and for how long this really went on. It wouldn't surprise me to find out there are other perps either.
 
Old 05-24-2015, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,694 posts, read 23,533,254 times
Reputation: 35409
I don't understand how or why Michelle is equating transgender people with child predators here. What does one have to do with the other especially now that we have seen that celebrity Bruce Jenner has come out as transgender and has been a loving dad to his kids. Farther back, we also witnessed Cher's struggle with daughter Chastity's transgender change but remained a loving, supportive parent to her child.

Perhaps there might be transgender people who could be child predators but certainly the vast majority of those who prey on children are not. That's like saying someone born with asthma could be a child predator. They could be but the asthma didn't make it so.

This is just one more indication of the isolation of the world in which Michelle lives. And her daughters are being raised that way. Their isolation can't possibly be teaching them how to cope with their situation. Now that the real world, which their father so very eagerly invited in but only in a limited way and only on his terms for his own reward, has rejected this family. My heart hurts for these girls. I wonder if the girls are blaming themselves? I wonder if they understand why this is happening?

I don't think anyone's religion preaches "Go forth and be fruitful and ignorant." But unfortunately, too many people interpret it that way.
 
Old 05-24-2015, 10:32 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
7,628 posts, read 14,325,779 times
Reputation: 18705
Quote:
Originally Posted by charolastra00 View Post
They did not immediately take action. They first discovered the abuse of one of the children in March of 2002. He managed to amass 4 more victims in the year that followed. Papa Duggar didn't report it until 2004, and that was to a family friend who was a cop now in jail for 55 years for kiddie porn. No charges were filed.

I do not applaud anyone who allows 4 of their daughters to be abused and then force them to remain in the same home as their abuser. It's clear that the Duggars just hoped this would go away.

The ONLY REASON we have a police report at all is because someone tipped off the Oprah Show. The Duggars absolutely did not get anyone involved the help they needed.




This. He went away for a summer to renovate a home with a family friend. No counseling. No alternative housing arrangements AWAY from his little sisters. Nothing.

And meanwhile, Michelle sits on TV surrounded by her daughters talking about how it's their responsibility to dress modestly so as not to arouse poor, out of control men when she knows they were molested in their sleep as children by her son, their brother, and she did nothing about it. Disgusting.
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!!

If they were a "wholesome" as some would like to think, this would have been reported immediately when discovered. ALL children involved would have been given counseling!!!!

Something not right about this entire situation, I personally believe the "truth" is not completely uncovered and one must remember there are still cults that believe, to this day, it is the father that is 100% right and the women must be "submissive". I believe this family fits that mold. Now he is a father with children. You have to wonder...
 
Old 05-24-2015, 10:42 AM
 
10,171 posts, read 7,014,226 times
Reputation: 23917
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
I'm also embarrassed to admit I have ulcerative colitis and don't want to talk about it in person, so I don't think it is quite like you are concluding. I have a very serious need for privacy, have since the day I was born. Like I said, not my fault but I would not want people knowing. Not all victims want light shone on what happened to them and that should be strictly their choice.

One thing being a victim does do is make most hyper-vigilant for their kids or other loved ones when they are in potentially the same circumstances, I imagine that will hold true for these girls. Forgiving and/or moving on is not the same as forgetting.
Well I won't psychoanalyze you further, but pre-therapy, I could have said the same exact things.

Hyper-vigilant does not mean the same as safe, or even good parenting. Victims also put their children in the same situations as they were to to prove "it wasn't so bad" or because they don't see the dangers as they have suppressed their own feelings so long. They discount and diminish reports of abuse "I got through it, so can you". A victim is a poor parent (not so with a survivor who has healed)/

Anyways, I am deeply sorry about your personal experience. I wish you peace and healing.
 
Old 05-24-2015, 10:48 AM
 
10,171 posts, read 7,014,226 times
Reputation: 23917
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarahsez View Post
I don't doubt that the girls remember. Does it torment them? I don't know. I hope not. It's quite possibly something the girls do not want to talk about...counseling or no counseling. I think it'd be more heartbreaking to have a lot of strangers poking in your business and causing problems. The girls may be comfortable with the way things are.
Im taking it you have never been molested or if you have, haven't worked through it in therapy. Again, a very uneducated view of sexual abuse
 
Old 05-24-2015, 10:52 AM
 
9,122 posts, read 7,150,454 times
Reputation: 13774
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFlyingBird View Post
or because they don't see the dangers as they have suppressed their own feelings so long. They discount and diminish reports of abuse "I got through it, so can you".
Many think they got thru it fine because they don't connect their problems with the abuse. Yeah I can't sustain a relationship for more than a year. Yeah I fly off the handle easily. Yeah I have this problem or that, but that's just the way I am.

It doesn't even cross their mind that they would have been different people if they had not experienced abuse.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. | Please obey Forum Rules | Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top