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I'm not sure we can apply a child molester profile onto him. He was arguably still a child himself. Especially in the sheltered, sexually repressed home he grew up in. How mature could he have been? He touched his sisters inappropriately and that is molestation. But his motivation might have been simple curiosity. And children going through puberty are curious. They may be even more curious in a household where there is no discussion of the changes he was going through, where the girls are always covered, where masturbation might have been treated as a sin. I think in normal households with multi-gender siblings that while nothing incestuous occurs, that the girls and boys are well aware of the physical differences between themselves, just from walking into bathrooms and bedrooms unexpectedly.
Repression breeds obsession.
umm because he molested children, that's what a child molester is. I'm not sure why anyone would try to make excuses for him. I grew up with a ton of male cousins, they never got so 'curious' that they felt the need to touch me inappropriately..that's NOT normal. Find me one state that excuse molestation by a juvenile because they are 'curious'
I don't always agree with the Duggars and their ideas, but they did take some sort of corrective action. Reportedly, it has not happened again. Honestly, had the police and CPS become actively involved, it could have harmed their family even worse. You start pulling kids out of homes and putting them in foster homes that are worse than the family situation and you take a bad problem and make it worse. Josh was removed from the family for a period of time and placed with someone they trusted. We don't know what happened there, but apparently the situation with him was resolved. We don't know about the girls. I've never 100% bought into the idea of counseling. It can help some people. I've talked to several people who have said it made their lives worse, not better.
Regardless of what Josh did, he was a part of their family. Jim Bob and Michelle couldn't just disown him. He was their son. They had to deal with both sides of the situation. Nothing they did or ever could do would take away what happened in the past. Jim Bob and Michelle probably dealt with the situation in the way that they thought best.
I don't believe Josh is the child molester type he is being made out to be. He was a teenage boy in a sexually repressed family. He found the girls that were readily available to him. It doesn't make it right. I don't think he is a threat to his daughters, nieces or any other children.
The son should have been pulled out of the home. Keeping Josh at home as an ever present reminder that his victims are never safe is much worse than foster care. Quite frankly, I wouldn't be opposed to ALL of the remaining children being removed from the Duggar's home as they have proven they are not fit to be parents. It is not necessarily their fault that Josh molested the first child - there are bad seeds. It is ABSOLUTELY 100% their fault that he went on to abuse 4 more girls. It is their fault that they did not take him to the police. It is their fault that they did not get any of their children substantive help. It is their fault that they did not remove Josh from the home.
We only know of 5 victims. I would not be surprised if other children were victimized. After all, it's not like the Duggars would ever report it and it's unlikely that the younger siblings were ever warned to stay away from big brother.
I hope this gives Jana and Jinger (and the rest) the chance to run. There are organizations out there to help women escape sexually abusive cults. I hope they avail themselves to that assistance. #freejinger
And if you think those kids are normal, look at Jana. She is 25 years old, still living at home, no career and no education. She's an old maid by the standards of the Duggar's culture. She looks so profoundly sad - smiling mouth but dead eyes. Maybe Papa Duggar sees her as damaged goods so that's why he hasn't married her off yet?
I think it's kind of despicable so many of you seem so happy this happened.
Happy? No. I'd much rather live in a world where the Duggars hadn't ever been propelled to fame and where an organization like the FRC didn't hire one of them as a spokesperson.
But when people use their fame to point fingers at others and yell "Immoral!", they'd damn well better take care of the beams in their own eyes first. When a family hushes down the molestation in their midst, they have no moral high ground to claim.
Last edited by Dane_in_LA; 05-22-2015 at 10:54 AM..
I'd hope people would be kind, forgiving to me if I made a mistake and it was exposed. It seems in today's world there is only hate, condemnation and rejoicing in another's pain.
It's not my job to chastise or judge.
If you want to and enjoy it, carry on.
I've made mistakes too. When I was about 14, I shoplifted a box of Junior Mints. I knew it was wrong, but I wanted the thrill.
My mistakes do not include molesting my younger siblings, or anyone. They certainly do not involve a pattern of attacking very young girls (as young as 4) in their sleep to grab their breasts and stick my fingers up their vagina. If that's a "mistake" to you, then G-d help you. That's a sociopathic behavior.
And no matter his sexual frustration, molesting a 4 year old is pedophilia. Even the most sexually frustrated 14 year old in the world isn't going to look at someone who is under 10 sexually unless there are much deeper issues.
I don't think it's common, but even if it is, it's disgusting and harmful. That creepy dude's wife better keep a close eye on her own kids.
But, you know, if something happens, as long as he apologizes and says he's returned to God's love, all is forgiven and swept under the rug.
I think that's the thing that bothers me most. You can forgive your son, and you can accept his remorse as genuine, and you can believe that he has "returned to God" and changed his ways, but if it's me? The FIRST time I hear that my son put his hand on my 10-year-old daughter's vagina, I can accept all of the above, but I will still take steps to make sure that he has no way of accessing her where she sleeps. Period. And he did not do that. They knew about it, and it continued despite some mild efforts on their part. When does it stop being about the concept of Christian remorse and forgiveness, and start being about "all the same, I'm going to protect my daughters from now on"?
umm because he molested children, that's what a child molester is. I'm not sure why anyone would try to make excuses for him. I grew up with a ton of male cousins, they never got so 'curious' that they felt the need to touch me inappropriately..that's NOT normal. Find me one state that excuse molestation by a juvenile because they are 'curious'
The definition of molestation generally includes that it is done for sexual gratification. We don't know what was going on in Josh's head, if it was just curiosity or what. That is why his parents should have gone to authorities. The authorities would have had him assessed by professionals who could have determined what was going on, and what the appropriate treatment would be.
I'm not making excuses. Nothing I've said could be construed as an excuse. And really, my concern is with Josh's victims, and whether they ever received any counseling, how what happened affected them, and how the aftermath affected them. It's not just the molestation that's an issue. It's the fact that they had to continue to live with their molester for years, a molester that by virtue of being a male and being the oldest, had some authority over them.
Did the "ton of male cousins" you grew up with grow up themselves in a sexually repressed home where interactions with the rest of the world were strictly monitored and regulated, and where very rigid rules about physical contact were enforced?
I could see your points if this was just a "mistake."
These were criminal acts and should have been treated as such.
That you dismiss child sexual molestation as a "mistake" says a lot.
I never said this (the Josh situation) was a mistake. Those are your words.
Criminal charges are brought and determined by the district attorney, not you.
And I never said sexual molestation was a mistake.
You seem to have a chip on your shoulder that twists your ability to read & comprehend clearly. You might want to get that checked into. It probably effects your ability to function appropriately in life.
I'm not sure we can apply a child molester profile onto him. He was arguably still a child himself. Especially in the sheltered, sexually repressed home he grew up in. How mature could he have been? He touched his sisters inappropriately and that is molestation. But his motivation might have been simple curiosity. And children going through puberty are curious. They may be even more curious in a household where there is no discussion of the changes he was going through, where the girls are always covered, where masturbation might have been treated as a sin. I think in normal households with multi-gender siblings that while nothing incestuous occurs, that the girls and boys are well aware of the physical differences between themselves, just from walking into bathrooms and bedrooms unexpectedly.
Repression breeds obsession.
I was really responding the post saying he's not a child molester because he grew up in a sexually repressed home and turned to his sisters because they were available. I think that is pretty much a textbook definition of a child molester. They have sexual urges for which they don't have a healthy outlet so they prey on available victims.
I understand what you're saying and agree that he was young when it happened and may have been acting on desires that he did not otherwise know how to address. But, if the allegations are true that he did it repeatedly to multiple sisters over a span of time, I believe that behavior crosses the line from curiosity to molestation. Also, in a house where masturbation may have been treated as a sin, surely fondling a member of the opposite sex would also be considered a sin. Don't their parents make a big deal out of not touching a member of the opposite sex until you're married?
I think the key issue is whether it happened again after he was sent away. If it did, it will only come to light if the sisters speak up. Seeing as how their family fortune rests on their being quiet, it would take a brave young person to come forward.
Happy? No. I'd much rather live in a world where the Duggars hadn't ever been propelled to fame and there an organization like the FRC didn't hire one of them as a spokesperson.
But when people use their fame to point fingers at others and yell "Immoral!", they'd damn well better take care of the beams in their own eyes first. When a family hushes down the molestation in their midst, they have no moral high ground to claim.
Right, this is the point. I've always considered them part of the TLC televised "Freak Show", and I've always been uncomfortable with the normalization of the repression of women portrayed in some of these shows, the idea that women are just there to be breeders, and that the female children are expected to be surrogate parents for their younger siblings, to cook, clean, and that everyone is home schooled.
Then, to have them be part of these organizations which are as controversial as the FRC, TLC should have backed away. I understand that the Quiverful cult wants to live life on their terms, and I get that their ideas and mine are different. I just wish that people didn't look at this sort of cultish behavior as something which should be admired.
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