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Old 05-25-2015, 09:01 PM
 
1,666 posts, read 766,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperionGap View Post
Maybe you should go join your Muslim brothers in arms so you can go kill some infidels and western imperialists that are trying to spread such horrible things as capitalism and democracy.

Instead, of course, you choose to sit on your comfy couch in Portland enjoying that democracy and western imperialism you're so quick to condemn.
Who would my Muslim brothers in arms be?

And note again, I'm mentioning forced-violent interventions in other regions of the world. Secular democracy seems to work here and has worked well in response to Western European problems.
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Old 05-25-2015, 09:07 PM
 
Location: USA
19,661 posts, read 14,639,239 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O.C. Ogilvy View Post
For someone who is presumably not a member of the KKK, you sure seem to know a lot about it.
Apparently he is an expert on all topics.

So far the Apologist have put the blame on Christians, the West, Secularist, kkk, Mexicans, many Muslim countries that apparently dont practice Islam the correct way and many more.
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Old 05-25-2015, 09:07 PM
 
7,328 posts, read 4,000,028 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
The KKK were a fringe group and never more than a tiny fraction of the members of Islam, and even then, even fewer committed violent acts.
For most of its history the Klan was many things but a fringe group wasn't one of them. At its height the Klan numbered well over 100,000. As for committing violent acts, when you are the power in state and local government just how many violent acts does one need to commit in order to maintain control? And, if we are to start counting where do we begin, with all white juries that used the court system to how many African Americans dies in bomb blasts? Do we count race riots like those that happened in Tulsa or Rosewood?

Quote:
BTW, how many have died at the hands of the KKK this year?
I find this question and argument the most risible. What because Christians haven't bombed an abortion clinic in a couple of years or because the Klan has been brought to heel in the last 50 years they don't count when folks connect the dots of religious bigotry and violence which demonstrate the non-exclusivity of the bigotry and violence committed by, how did you put it, yes... fringe Islamic groups.
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Old 05-25-2015, 09:10 PM
 
1,666 posts, read 766,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWiseWino View Post
For most of its history the Klan was many things but a fringe group wasn't one of them. At its height the Klan numbered well over 100,000. As for committing violent acts, when you are the power in state and local government just how many violent acts does one need to commit in order to maintain control? And, if we are to start counting where do we begin, with all white juries that used the court system to how many African Americans dies in bomb blasts? Do we count race riots like those that happened in Tulsa or Rosewood?



I find this question and argument the most risible. What because Christians haven't bombed an abortion clinic in a couple of years or because the Klan has been brought to heel in the last 50 years they don't count when folks connect the dots of religious bigotry and violence which demonstrate the non-exclusivity of the bigotry and violence committed by, how did you put it, yes... fringe Islamic groups.
One correction Wino, the Klan actually numbered as much as 6 *million* at one point, about 5% of the U.S. population around 1925.
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Old 05-25-2015, 09:12 PM
 
7,328 posts, read 4,000,028 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDXNative2Houston View Post
One correction Wino, the Klan actually numbered as much as 6 *million* at one point, about 5% of the U.S. population around 1925.
That's one major correction! Thanks.http://stylemetothemoon.com/wp-conte...al-Style-9.jpg

Last edited by CaseyB; 05-26-2015 at 01:46 PM..
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Old 05-25-2015, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
27,275 posts, read 17,541,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDXNative2Houston View Post
Secular Governance =/= Forced atheism or agnosticism. Note I mentioned three components of what we have forced, or attempted to force on others; Secularism, Capitalism, and Democracy. This is not only a fundamental mistake in foreign policy, but is also *evil* as we set up Governments that are in *our* favor dependent on *us* for the long term future. Many more people died at the hands of this policy and imperialism than be any terrorist outfit (whom only exist due to said imperialism).

It's also a distinct problem with the outlook of a western imperialist. He just can not get it through his mind that while secular-democracy may have been an answer to western-European problems, it might not be an answer to the problems facing the people of Asia, the ME or Africa.
It is wrong try to force "secularism" or democracy and capitalism on other countries. Secularism in particular the only moral course for a nation. That does not mean atheism, the exclusion of a nationally recognized religion is the only course that ensures equal treatment of all faiths. Secularism, along with capitalism and democracy are the reasons that the western nations are the worlds most developed and prosperous. The embracing of superstitions at a national means or tool of law and government is wrong, evil and, well, dumb. That doesn't mean a government can not respect and allow a variety of beliefs, simply that it should not endorse one or base laws upon them. Capitalism is the voluntary trade of goods and services. It is the only system that is based upon voluntary free trade, and not coercion or enslavement. It, and democracy, allow all individuals to rise based upon their effort and intelligence. Sadly, we are far from a capitalist country.

However, I do agree with not forcing any of these moral codes on others. If individuals, and entire countries, want to mire themselves in first millennial myths and superstitions (rather it's labeled as Islam, Christianity or any other theism), live their lives for some supernatural deity, kill and enslave others and subjugate women it's name, that is their choice. It certainly isn't worth the life of our young men and women to stop that and free those people. I disagree with "spreading democracy", when it is our people that have to do the fighting and dying to free others that won't free themselves. However, I do fight to keep those same primitive, immoral concepts from taking over this country.

I came across the following in an article on the clan. Substitute "white supremacy" with Muslim supremacy and you have what seems pretty reminiscent of Islam.

Quote:
In its second incarnation, the Klan moved beyond just targeting blacks, and broadened its message of hate to include Catholics, Jews and foreigners. The Klan promoted fundamentalism and devout patriotism along with advocating white supremacy. They blasted bootleggers, motion pictures and espoused a return to "clean" living. Appealing to folks uncomfortable with the shifting nature of America from a rural agricultural society to an urban industrial nation, the Klan attacked the elite, urbanites and intellectuals.
No doubt most Muslims are good, decent, honorable people. Most people are. But in some ways, they degree with which they are is based upon the degree with which they ignore at least some of the tenants of the religion.
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Old 05-25-2015, 10:20 PM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
27,275 posts, read 17,541,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWiseWino View Post
I find this question and argument the most risible. What because Christians haven't bombed an abortion clinic in a couple of years or because the Klan has been brought to heel in the last 50 years they don't count when folks connect the dots of religious bigotry and violence which demonstrate the non-exclusivity of the bigotry and violence committed by, how did you put it, yes... fringe Islamic groups.
Ah, I am missing the point of your rant? The KKK has nearly died out, as it should have. And no Christian church or organization ever endorsed bombings of abortion clinics (that I am aware of). They did denounce those that did so. And, as you said, it has been many years since one has occurred. So some people do mature, develop and, shall we say evolve away from evil, primitive acts. Even Christians largely have done so, with the exception of some in areas with particularly brutal, primitive cultures (Kony Army comes to mind). The same can not be said, to anywhere near the same degree, of Islam. Not when we have attacks in the name of Islam in nearly every country.
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Old 05-26-2015, 01:41 PM
 
Location: The Lone Star State
8,031 posts, read 7,619,815 times
Reputation: 5042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangokiwi View Post
Look at how far off topic this thread has gotten. You literally cannot talk about Islamic terrorism that is happening as a current event, literally in the last week, without someone diverting the entire conversation to talk about the Crusades or to dredge up the KKK from 60 years ago. It's ridiculous. If you have nothing to say about Muslim terrorists then get off this thread. Go rant about Christianity and the KKK in a different forum.

STICK TO THE TOPIC! We are talking about ISLAMIC TERRORISM and what the MUSLIMS are doing RIGHT NOW to terrorize and kill people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LS Jaun View Post
So far the Apologists have put the blame on Christians, the West, Secularists, kkk, Mexicans, Muslim countries that apparently don't practice Islam the correct way and many more.
The radical Islam / ISIS apologists just can't help themselves. They find it impossible to stay on topic with this.
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Old 05-26-2015, 02:46 PM
 
Location: USA
19,661 posts, read 14,639,239 times
Reputation: 12703
Quote:
Originally Posted by sxrckr View Post
The radical Islam / ISIS apologists just can't help themselves. They find it impossible to stay on topic with this.
I really don't think most of them are really apologizing for Radical Islam or ISIS, just trying to differentiate themselves from it. Probably like Christians differentiating themselves from the Branch Davidians.

You really can't expect someone who is a devout follower to bad mouth their own religion, so they really can't help but to demonize other religions, mostly Christianity and Judaism, but all religions too, since elements of Islam are in contention with every other culture and religion it comes in contact with across the globe.


The non Muslim Apologist are more dispersed in their thinking. I grew up in a liberal household that held these kind of Ideals. Some think they are being noble and coming to the defense of a minority religious group, some romanticize other Religions, some think all other religions of the world other than Christianity are benign, some from the 70s era just think that anything we do in the US must be more evil than any other group in the world. There are many Neville Chamberlain types among them
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