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Old 05-31-2015, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Corona the I.E.
10,137 posts, read 17,427,078 times
Reputation: 9139

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I am proud of Rand Paul standing up for us Americans against the Police State that has been forced upon us since 911.

Thank Edward Snowden for shining a light on this issue as well.
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Old 05-31-2015, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Corona the I.E.
10,137 posts, read 17,427,078 times
Reputation: 9139
Quote:
Originally Posted by armory View Post
As you have laid out here...Patriot act is the first real act of tyranny pushed upon the Ameriican public. Passing a blanket law to deal with circumstances before they occur is like arresting all blacks in Baltimore for being black.

Why not have drones follow us around and monitor our very actions from how we sleep, what we eat, what we say and who we say it to?

DHS and TPP need to go away as well because we are being slammed with tyranny whether people know it or not.
DHS is the umbrella of the Police State. And not one example of meta data being used to stop an attack.
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Old 05-31-2015, 04:04 PM
 
58,712 posts, read 26,998,537 times
Reputation: 14163
Quote:
Originally Posted by squaresville View Post
All long-distance domestic telephone calls placed since at least the early 1970s have been voice recorded and stored.

Bluffdale was built to redundantly house all voice call recordings, local and overseas, that can be accumulated in addition to other caches. They're simply keyed to the metadata for future reference.
"at least the early 1970s"

And has WHAT to do with the Patriot Act?

"Bluffdale was built to redundantly house all voice call recordings, local and overseas"

And you know this, how?

"1. It’s Not Yet Clear What Exactly the Center Will Do."

"The official purpose of the facility is classified, but it is believed"
NSA’s Utah Data Center: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

In other words it is nothing but speculation.
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Old 05-31-2015, 04:10 PM
 
58,712 posts, read 26,998,537 times
Reputation: 14163
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
I do not doubt that Tamerlan Tsarnaev was making phone calls to known terrorist areas, after all he was traveling back and forth to them. He wasn't even a citizen of this country. How did all of this collection of data do any good? What good is it when they are not even able to connect the obvious? He was already a suspect in another murder.
To ask the question, " How did all of this collection of data do any good" only shows your lack of knowledge on the subject.

Do you really expect that EVER TIME this info is used to STOP something or to find a bad guy that they are going to broadcast it all over the world.

When you TELL your enemy that your programs are working they change their way of doing things.

What a concept!
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Old 05-31-2015, 04:49 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 43,992,125 times
Reputation: 17189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
To ask the question, " How did all of this collection of data do any good" only shows your lack of knowledge on the subject.

Do you really expect that EVER TIME this info is used to STOP something or to find a bad guy that they are going to broadcast it all over the world.

When you TELL your enemy that your programs are working they change their way of doing things.

What a concept!
They've admitted it's stopped nothing. Maybe they should concentrate on the obvious? We had a non citizen, already suspected of a murder traveling back and forth to known terrorist areas and it was missed but they are going to stop something based upon phone calls they claim aren't even being listened to?
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Old 05-31-2015, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 59,627,700 times
Reputation: 24860
Having this data is less important than who they will sell it to. some businesses will pay a LOT of money to know who their competitors are talking with. What is less important then who.
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Old 05-31-2015, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Eastern Shore of Maryland
5,940 posts, read 3,551,374 times
Reputation: 5650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartacus713 View Post

But it is not a question that is as simple as "let's just get rid of the entire Patriot Act and go home - Easy-peasy, lemon-squeezy." That is not a thoughtful or responsible response here, as I am sure Rand Paul would agree.
Of course its a responsible reaction. We don't need all those "Secret" Courts, which we do not even know if they exist at all, and we don't need to be lied to about what they are doing and not doing. These people are liars and Hooligans, and you can't trust them to self govern. We tried that. Scrap the whole thing and pull their claws out. Let everything go back to be governed by our Normal Court System, overlooked by the same Judges we deal with daily, that are one of us, and not their team. It works. Fast is not always better. Less mistakes in trampling our freedoms because its faster.
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Old 05-31-2015, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Eastern Shore of Maryland
5,940 posts, read 3,551,374 times
Reputation: 5650
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
I do not doubt that Tamerlan Tsarnaev was making phone calls to known terrorist areas, after all he was traveling back and forth to them. He wasn't even a citizen of this country. How did all of this collection of data do any good? What good is it when they are not even able to connect the obvious? He was already a suspect in another murder.

It isn't for people like that, regardless of how they try to sell it. Its for people like you and me, and everyone else here who disagrees with aspects of Government. They want to know who their enemies are here, not out there. They already lied many times about even doing it, until exposed by Snowden, who they deem a Traitor for throwing light on them, like Roaches in your Kitchen, working in the dark, while you sleep. Is anyone actually foolish enough now, to believe anything they are claiming that they are not doing?

The only difference between us being a supposedly Free Nation, and a Police State, is the lack of knowledge they have about who would do what, where the resistance would come from, who would try and lead it, and do we suspect its coming some day, if the wrong person gets elected one day. All this Data will probably be used for Political Purposes one day, and the focus will be on Domestic Terrorists, who will be those folks that resist change and suspension of our Constitutional rights as we know them.

Its ironic that Snowden was painted as a Traitor, by the very same people who lied to everyone and violated our rights in Secret, without our consent. Maybe just maybe, we will have a little more Freedom for a few more years because of his exposing them.
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Old 05-31-2015, 06:54 PM
 
45,094 posts, read 26,262,470 times
Reputation: 24828
Consistent with Rands inconsistent stand on liberty and freedom, he called for the hiring of a 1000 more FBI agents while speaking on the senate floor this eve.
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Old 05-31-2015, 07:02 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 43,992,125 times
Reputation: 17189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
Consistent with Rands inconsistent stand on liberty and freedom, he called for the hiring of a 1000 more FBI agents while speaking on the senate floor this eve.
He was saying that (using the argument I've used for a long time) the spying did nothing to root out Tamerlan Tsarnaev so if it's because we have a lack of FBI agents the solution is not a useless spying program but more FBI agents.

Those against the spying are not against the FBI investigating immigrants flying back and forth to known terrorists areas.
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