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Old 01-20-2008, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,170 posts, read 24,284,822 times
Reputation: 15285

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgia View Post
After 20 years of Bush / Clinton I thought I was already in another country?
Get ready for another eight.
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Old 01-20-2008, 04:34 PM
 
3,150 posts, read 8,698,911 times
Reputation: 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by boiseguy View Post
people make all personal decisions based on selfish premis... its what you want in your life... you don't know what circumstances are making people choose to relocate... and to assume is being a bit unfair.. you're right.. america isn't the only
I am not assuming anything. You either stay and fight it or you move on, if you can't fight it then you move on, binary choice here. I am not critical of those who absolutely NEED to leave nor of those who actually leave because they feel America is not right for them. It's the people that complain yet will stay here, thats BS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boiseguy View Post
nobody should leave... saying that is absurd... moving out of the US has nothing to do with disliking their country...
Comon... that is certainly not not true. I personally know several people with this line of thinking but some haven't budged.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boiseguy View Post
many people face health reasons that aren't able to weather a battle.. its urgent for many
I don't criticize people in this situation, this is my third time saying that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boiseguy View Post
.... and life and death is more important than fighting for america's namesake.... life is more than america...
I guess I am too patriotic... or is that too self flattering?


Quote:
Originally Posted by boiseguy View Post
Perhaps then you have found the place that accomodates you.. you don't see any cases of such.. because you haven't put yourself in another's shoes.. its hard for people to do... I don't say I understand every circumstance... I'm just saying.. don't assume... there's so many factors in a person's life.. its along the same lines of where you choose to live within the US.. there's a reason why you live where u live.. vs. another place in the US... so too is another place on the planet...
You accuse me of assuming yet you assume that I don't know anyone who has been dealt a bad hand and never thought about what I would do if I were them. Well some of the people I know would never afford to move out of this country because they have it so bad.
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Old 01-20-2008, 05:16 PM
 
4,410 posts, read 6,129,558 times
Reputation: 2908
JTraik, you complain that people are giving up rather than staying to fix America's problems. One of the main problems is that we don't agree on what those problems are. Gay marriage isn't a problem that needs fixing, yet some people will get violent trying to 'solve' such non-issues. This lack of clarity is, I presume, the main reason behind people's hopelessness. Add the deafness of our elected officials, the urgency and acceleration of our decay, and the only people who WOULDN'T feel hopeless would the ignorant among us who simply aren't paying attention!

What is the source of your hope, then? You can't say your "freedoms" because anyone who stands up against the status quo gets shot down. You'll be excluded from the televised debates, arrested for trespassing, dissected under the media's microscopes, and forced to hold your banner behind barbed wire out of camera range. Most forms of dissent are not working. One man (even a billionaire) running for office isn't going to solve it either as every ounce of energy is spent to quash independent "people's" candidates. Is your home protected from the prying eyes of the government who, with their sophisticated surveillance, would nip you in the bud before you even step outside? Even posting thoughts like these is a risk I take myself. I just don't think it's wise to count on good 'ol American freedoms to forge solutions to our problems. Our choices have been systematically whittled down to one: theirs. Now, where exactly are you getting your hope?
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Old 01-20-2008, 06:21 PM
 
8,978 posts, read 16,531,721 times
Reputation: 3020
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTraik View Post
To the people moving out, have moved or are thinking about it... you are abandoning your country, you have given up and are moving out... mostly due to selfish reasoning, some not so selfish. I don't care how bad you think it is here or how bad you think the current administration is or how destructive big business has become... YOU HAVE GIVEN UP! You don't have the drive or energy to do anything, you would rather hit the EASY button!
.
I don't personally foresee ever moving out of the US permanently. I've been to quite a number of countries, been treated well by all, but feel most truly at home here--particularly in my own 'corner' of here.

I find it ironic, though, that your post seems to overlook the fact that America was CREATED by people who "abandoned their countries"..."gave up and moved out"....probably for "selfish reasons"....and were unwilling to "stay behind and fix things". Good thing they DIDN'T stay behind, or we'd now be living in Aztlan ! (Some of us, at least). Wouldn't have been bad, though, for those 'lucky few', as I'm told that Aztlan came pretty close to being an earthly Paradise.

Even MORE ironic, the American West was settled in large part, by people who "gave up" on the East Coast---didn't "stick around to fix it", and took off in search of new horizons, for "selfish reasons"....

Sounds like we're descended from a bunch of malcontents who just couldn't get along ANYWHERE !....
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Old 01-20-2008, 06:30 PM
 
3,150 posts, read 8,698,911 times
Reputation: 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
I find it ironic, though, that your post seems to overlook the fact that America was CREATED by people who "abandoned their countries"..."gave up and moved out"....probably for "selfish reasons"....and were unwilling to "stay behind and fix things". Good thing they DIDN'T stay behind, or we'd now be living in Aztlan ! (Some of us, at least).
Absolutely but there is no where else to truly start fresh, there is no more undiscovered/undeclared land. And further, it was a community of people doing this with a common goal. I don't see droves of people splitting off to different lands with common goals these days. There is no such thing as territory pioneering anymore. Times have changed and everything is in place, if something goes wrong, if it doesn't get fixed then it is doomed.
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Old 01-20-2008, 06:52 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,170 posts, read 24,284,822 times
Reputation: 15285
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTraik View Post
Absolutely but there is no where else to truly start fresh, there is no more undiscovered/undeclared land. And further, it was a community of people doing this with a common goal. I don't see droves of people splitting off to different lands with common goals these days. There is no such thing as territory pioneering anymore. Times have changed and everything is in place, if something goes wrong, if it doesn't get fixed then it is doomed.
Consider the possibility that the "someplace else" to "start fresh" might be within the human experience, rather than a change of geographic real estate: what I mean is, the possibility of conquering disease, environmental problems, war, violence, even tribal and religious conflicts. Maybe Americans will turn to seeking and hopefully finding better ways to live...
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Old 01-20-2008, 07:12 PM
 
8,978 posts, read 16,531,721 times
Reputation: 3020
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTraik View Post
Absolutely but there is no where else to truly start fresh, there is no more undiscovered/undeclared land. And further, it was a community of people doing this with a common goal. I don't see droves of people splitting off to different lands with common goals these days. There is no such thing as territory pioneering anymore. Times have changed and everything is in place, if something goes wrong, if it doesn't get fixed then it is doomed.
Pretty much true that the days of "open land" are pretty well over. Antarctica is wide open, but too tough a place to raise a decent crop. Maybe someday, Mars?---might be water there---but that won't happen for a while...
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Old 01-20-2008, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,446 posts, read 16,159,318 times
Reputation: 6958
Quote:
Originally Posted by twojciac View Post
I'd love to stay if we restore our Constitution... but it seems like the Republicans have no regard for our liberties and the Democrats want to turn us into more of a socialist state... so I have little hope for the future.

I'm willing to start up a fund to pay moving costs for all of the socialists to relocate to one of the many socialist countries though.
Are you sure you want to do this?
In less than five years I'd like to relocate to "socialist" France or "socialist" Germany. Not having to finance my own moving costs would be very welcome. I'd hug you for it! Should I supply you with my bank account number?
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Old 01-20-2008, 07:56 PM
 
Location: DFW, TX
2,935 posts, read 6,706,369 times
Reputation: 572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visvaldis View Post
Are you sure you want to do this?
In less than five years I'd like to relocate to "socialist" France or "socialist" Germany. Not having to finance my own moving costs would be very welcome. I'd hug you for it! Should I supply you with my bank account number?
I'm sure we could find plenty of people to chip in. It's a great cause... we can reclaim our country!
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Old 01-20-2008, 08:00 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
14,044 posts, read 27,165,238 times
Reputation: 7373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Grass Fever View Post
Just wondering if anyone seriously considered moving out of the U.S.?

If so, for what reasons and how would you go about it?

...I would like to hear your stories and reasons if you did move out, thought about it or in the process of doing it.

B.G.F.
This was the summary request from the OP, please get back on topic. If you'd like to start another thread on who you would pay to leave this country, or what should befall those who may wish to leave the country you may feel free to do so.

This thread is about the above quote.
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