Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 06-05-2015, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Freedomtown, US
100 posts, read 101,051 times
Reputation: 136

Advertisements

I am seeing a disturbing and disheartening influx of socially conservative, hyper-religious, former Republicans infiltrating the Libertarian party in masses. They seem discontent with the current state of the GOP and want a new home. But their ideals do not match with real Libertarianism.

These people only seem to care about their economic freedoms, and not the other key aspects that are absolutely central to being a TRUE libertarian (i.e. maximizing personal freedoms and individual choice, increasing government accountability, fighting against the over-criminalization and police brutality currently happening in our justice system, etc.).

TRUE libertarianism is about maximizing both economic AND social freedoms. We should NEVER alter our values of freedom and individual liberty just to increase membership from the very same people who ultimately do not support our most basic principles.

I am also hearing talks from these supposed Libertarians about bringing back that "States' Rights" nonsense. This is a mockery to our Party as TRUE Libertarianism is NOT about which level of government should have more rights than the next one. Libertarianism is all about the rights of the INDIVIDUAL.

Libertarians believe that individuals have certain inalienable rights that cannot and should not be violated by ANY level of government (whether state, local, or federal).

Real Libertarians should be highly skeptical of the states' rights doctrine. Does a state have the right to seize the property of private citizens and redistribute that property to other people? Does a state have the right to tell its citizens that they cannot utilize any forms of birth control? Should a state be allowed to deny people the right to vote based on skin color or gender (remember, southern states did this openly during Segregation and defended it with the States' Rights doctrine)?

All levels of government have the potential to be corrupt and intrusive. Whether it is the local, state or the federal government, we must place serious limitations on how much power any government has over our rights.

When we defend INDIVIDUAL rights, we defend rights for EVERYONE. We've seen what the states' rights doctrine has done to the rights of black people, women, gays, and the poor throughout the South for most of our history.

There must be a concerted effort to keep social conservatives out of this Party or else they will destroy it just like they did the Republican Party, a formerly GREAT party that once fought to end slavery and segregation, and demanded equal rights for blacks, Native Americans, women and other marginalized groups, all while promoting free market capitalism, personal responsibility, and entrepreneuship.

Now, when my generation hears the word "Republican," we think of corrupt old white men who want to control every aspect of people's personal and social lives and want tax cuts for only the ultra-rich (and not the middle and working classes).

I do not want the same thing to happen to the Libertarian Party.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-05-2015, 07:09 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
7,541 posts, read 10,257,754 times
Reputation: 3510
The Libertarian Party doesn't have a majority, so if they are going to actually win elections they are going to have to reach out.

Unless they are content with just being a debating society, looking for potential allies with which they have common ground makes sense, even if they are people of faith.

The idea of reaching out to welfare recipients and civil servants doesn't make sense, as the Libertarian policy of smaller government takes bread out of those people's mouths.

The GOP hasn't been destroyed yet, in reality, reaching out to Falwell et al was the coalition factor that brought Reagan into power. Before Reagan, they were a long time minority
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-05-2015, 07:25 PM
 
Location: Freedomtown, US
100 posts, read 101,051 times
Reputation: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam View Post
The Libertarian Party doesn't have a majority, so if they are going to actually win elections they are going to have to reach out.

Unless they are content with just being a debating society, looking for potential allies with which they have common ground makes sense, even if they are people of faith.


The GOP hasn't been destroyed yet, in reality, reaching out to Falwell et al was the coalition factor that brought Reagan into power. Before Reagan, they were a long time minority
They need to reach out to people who already support the ideals of both social AND economic freedoms (i.e. voters between the ages of 24-35). The 24-35 voting bloc is already VERY libertarian (we support both economic freedoms and social freedoms) yet they tend to vote Democrat because they must choose the lesser of two evils in each election and we would rather pay more in taxes than stand up for the government intruding into people's personal lives.

Also, the GOP has already been destroyed. Young people will not vote for them in masses and it's more or less simply becoming a mostly Southern and/or hyper-religious nut party. The Religious Right is a toxic voting bloc that tends to alienate moderate voters from the Republican Party.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-05-2015, 07:51 PM
 
Location: OC/LA
3,830 posts, read 4,662,421 times
Reputation: 2214
Quote:
Originally Posted by RUDE DUDE View Post
They need to reach out to people who already support the ideals of both social AND economic freedoms (i.e. voters between the ages of 24-35). The 24-35 voting bloc is already VERY libertarian (we support both economic freedoms and social freedoms) yet they tend to vote Democrat because they must choose the lesser of two evils in each election and we would rather pay more in taxes than stand up for the government intruding into people's personal lives.

Also, the GOP has already been destroyed. Young people will not vote for them in masses and it's more or less simply becoming a mostly Southern and/or hyper-religious nut party. The Religious Right is a toxic voting bloc that tends to alienate moderate voters from the Republican Party.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Though I usually do end up voting GOP in national elections as long as I can deal with the candidate. If someone like Huckabee were to win the primary, there's absolutely no way.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-05-2015, 10:30 PM
 
1,309 posts, read 1,159,239 times
Reputation: 1768
Wow does the OP have it backwards, its the Tea Party right wingers pretending they are libertarian that is the case. They pretend TEA means Taxed Enough Already but support banning abortion, gay marriage, people building mosques near Ground Zero and support cops killing unarmed black men. I have no idea what any of those things have to do with taxes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2015, 07:27 AM
 
3,617 posts, read 3,883,042 times
Reputation: 2295
Quote:
Originally Posted by RUDE DUDE View Post
They need to reach out to people who already support the ideals of both social AND economic freedoms (i.e. voters between the ages of 24-35). The 24-35 voting bloc is already VERY libertarian (we support both economic freedoms and social freedoms) yet they tend to vote Democrat because they must choose the lesser of two evils in each election and we would rather pay more in taxes than stand up for the government intruding into people's personal lives.

Also, the GOP has already been destroyed. Young people will not vote for them in masses and it's more or less simply becoming a mostly Southern and/or hyper-religious nut party. The Religious Right is a toxic voting bloc that tends to alienate moderate voters from the Republican Party.
I am one of the young people you describe and tend to vote Republican. I don't have the source on me, but I remember reading that approximately 75% of people who express libertarian views tend to vote for Republicans. At the end of the day, the American system is a two party system and we are a smaller group than core liberals or core conservatives and have to each decide whether economic or social issues are more important to us when voting. Personally, most social issues to me are more abstract things I support whereas economic issues effect my life in practice, so I vote that way most of the time (things would change if I thought abortion right were under credible threat). Also, neither party seems to get much done on social issues whereas they both tend to get a lot done (for better or worse) on economic ones so that's where policy will be more responsive to who controls the government.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2015, 07:32 AM
 
4,983 posts, read 3,290,251 times
Reputation: 2739
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolZombie View Post
Wow does the OP have it backwards, its the Tea Party right wingers pretending they are libertarian that is the case. They pretend TEA means Taxed Enough Already but support banning abortion, gay marriage, people building mosques near Ground Zero and support cops killing unarmed black men. I have no idea what any of those things have to do with taxes.
Just stop. Grow up. Think.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2015, 08:11 PM
 
1,309 posts, read 1,159,239 times
Reputation: 1768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ih2puo View Post
Just stop. Grow up. Think.
Typical Tea Party nonsense response, no defense for Michael Brown, Trayvon Martin, Eric Garner and Freddie Gray since you'll be ostracized from your little social group of racists.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:27 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top