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Old 06-12-2015, 04:46 PM
 
986 posts, read 2,507,173 times
Reputation: 1449

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Petroleum is a finite, irreplaceable, energy-dense, portable substance used for critical things like transportation, heating, plastics, fertilizers and medicines. Natural gas and coal aren't as versatile as oil but still very important to society.

Is it the goal of climate "skeptics" to burn these irreplaceable gifts from nature as FAST as humanly possible? What would be the point of such behavior, other than to thumb one's nose at regulations, like rolling coal in a pickup truck? "Neener, neener, you can't tell ME what to do!" Do wastrels and polluters see themselves as patriotic?

Do they believe in abiotic oil or supernatural origins? The peaking dates of oil producing nations debunk abiotic oil in any practical quantity. In the real world, drilling is becoming increasingly difficult and costly, or mining in the case of tar sands. The U.S. "shale revolution" doesn't stand up to mathematical/geological scrutiny. It could peak in the early 2020s.

Even if CO2 was not the primary cause of radiative forcing it makes no sense to waste fossil fuels, so what do you people really want? You're wasting a lot of energy on anti-regulation zeal that does nothing for our future. Is short-term money all you care about? (rhetorical question)

A wise species ought to conserve oil, gas and coal at any price. You'd think the industry itself would seek future security by metering supplies to avoid worst-case peaking scenarios.

P.S. People who idle their engines for convenience, or drive too fast, or buy bigger vehicles when gas prices fall temporarily, are going to be grasping for scapegoats when Peak Oil becomes terminal. We could probably save a million barrels a day in America with a true conservation ethic.


Last edited by ca_north; 06-12-2015 at 05:08 PM..

 
Old 06-12-2015, 04:48 PM
 
28,661 posts, read 18,764,698 times
Reputation: 30933
Especially since we need oil for plastics, and God knows we need plastic.
 
Old 06-12-2015, 05:09 PM
 
986 posts, read 2,507,173 times
Reputation: 1449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Especially since we need oil for plastics, and God knows we need plastic.
Yes, that alone is enough reason not to squander it by buying the V-6 option when 4 cylinders will work fine.
 
Old 06-12-2015, 07:00 PM
 
Location: New York metropolitan area
65 posts, read 70,201 times
Reputation: 189
How much longer before the world's petroleum is exhausted? IOW, how finite is it? I bet if we approach the point of exhaustion, the signs will be clear and we'll adjust. For now, the commodity price of oil indicates it's still plentiful... and what makes for a wasteful use of it anyway? Waste isn't a concrete thing, it's a matter of whether something is useful to someone. I would bet almost all of the people who buy petroleum put it to good use.
 
Old 06-12-2015, 07:07 PM
 
258 posts, read 157,455 times
Reputation: 173
It would probably help if solutions to anthopocene concerns weren't always cast in terms of public policy that is considered left wing.

You could argue that two courses could be taken.

1) Only point out the problem and stay away from solutions. Once everyone is convinced there's an issue, you can fight over what to do, but not before.
2) Think up solutions that dial into right wing notions. Fight for less (or no) immigration from the third world (higher population in the first world = higher CO2 and the like, the US would have hit ZPG years ago without immigration). Work at population reduction worldwide. Help the Chinese and Indians clean up their act when at the trade bargaining table. Don't be so anti-nuclear.
 
Old 06-12-2015, 07:10 PM
 
258 posts, read 157,455 times
Reputation: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigGuy77 View Post
How much longer before the world's petroleum is exhausted? IOW, how finite is it? I bet if we approach the point of exhaustion, the signs will be clear and we'll adjust. For now, the commodity price of oil indicates it's still plentiful... and what makes for a wasteful use of it anyway? Waste isn't a concrete thing, it's a matter of whether something is useful to someone. I would bet almost all of the people who buy petroleum put it to good use.
You never run out, it's just gets more expensive in terms of energy ROI.

Really, practically any mined material has the problem of 'peak' whatever. Look at the lengths companies go to to mine gold. For all I know, 'Peak Copper' will happen before Peak Oil.
 
Old 06-12-2015, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
5,404 posts, read 15,988,586 times
Reputation: 8095
When we actually get close to "running out", other forms of energy will be more reasonably priced. That's the whole thing...right now, oil energy is our most cost effective way of running our world. I, for one, don't want to have to cut down all my trees to heat my home, or cook my food....so oil, it is. I'm ok with it.

I think higher CO2 levels create more trees and greenery...that's what plants breathe, after all! They will take in the carbon dioxide, and give off oxygen....and in a couple million years, those decomposed trees (and us) will create MORE oil for our descendants! Circle of life.
 
Old 06-13-2015, 05:59 AM
 
4,345 posts, read 2,791,073 times
Reputation: 5821
The stone age didn't end because we ran out of stones. The oil age won't end because there's no more oil. There is no end in sight to the world's recoverable oil reserves.

The USGS says the Green River shale formation in Colorado, Wyoming and Utah has 3 TRILLION barrels of oil, 1.5 TRILLION of which are recoverable economically with current technology. 1.5 trillion (yes, trillion) is equal to all the other oil reserves in the world combined. If oil gets more expensive, more will be economically recoverable.

And this is in America, the most explored country in the world. Deep ocean sources, the Arctic, the steppes of Asia all have lots of potential.

Already, re-fracking is appearing to suck more oil out of previously fracked wells. Human ingenuity and greed will ensure that ever better and more ingenious oil extraction methods will be found.

Oil will be done in the same way stones were: someone will invent something better. A way to store electricity that does not depend on lithium for example. Fusion would be even better, especially if that battery is invented.

The next time you hear someone talk about "peak oil", laugh at him to keep him from embarrassing himself further. Predicting the end of oil has made fools of more men than women have.
 
Old 06-13-2015, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Arizona
1,599 posts, read 1,807,522 times
Reputation: 4917
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saxon X Seaworthy View Post
It would probably help if solutions to anthopocene concerns weren't always cast in terms of public policy that is considered left wing.

You could argue that two courses could be taken.

1) Only point out the problem and stay away from solutions. Once everyone is convinced there's an issue, you can fight over what to do, but not before.
2) Think up solutions that dial into right wing notions. Fight for less (or no) immigration from the third world (higher population in the first world = higher CO2 and the like, the US would have hit ZPG years ago without immigration). Work at population reduction worldwide. Help the Chinese and Indians clean up their act when at the trade bargaining table. Don't be so anti-nuclear.
That is really the problem right there. The Republican party is backed by the Koch brothers, who are big oil. They make billions off of oil and they have no problem completely destroying the entire planet in the process. They've got the GOP convincing conservatives that everything that liberals want to do is evil without question, that climate change is a hoax and that regulating oil companies is unpatriotic and bad so that they will vote against things like clean/renewable energy, environmental protection and regulations.

Koch Industries | PolluterWatch

We will need to figure out another way to keep warm and transport ourselves without oil. We have the money and technology to do it. Why wait until we are on our final reserves and scrambling for a solution when we can get a huge head start now while we have the time to do it right? Corporate greed is pretty much the only thing stopping us.
 
Old 06-13-2015, 10:45 AM
 
Location: SW Florida
14,928 posts, read 12,126,747 times
Reputation: 24777
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_north View Post
Petroleum is a finite, irreplaceable, energy-dense, portable substance used for critical things like transportation, heating, plastics, fertilizers and medicines. Natural gas and coal aren't as versatile as oil but still very important to society.

Is it the goal of climate "skeptics" to burn these irreplaceable gifts from nature as FAST as humanly possible? What would be the point of such behavior, other than to thumb one's nose at regulations, like rolling coal in a pickup truck? "Neener, neener, you can't tell ME what to do!" Do wastrels and polluters see themselves as patriotic?

Do they believe in abiotic oil or supernatural origins? The peaking dates of oil producing nations debunk abiotic oil in any practical quantity. In the real world, drilling is becoming increasingly difficult and costly, or mining in the case of tar sands. The U.S. "shale revolution" doesn't stand up to mathematical/geological scrutiny. It could peak in the early 2020s.

Even if CO2 was not the primary cause of radiative forcing it makes no sense to waste fossil fuels, so what do you people really want? You're wasting a lot of energy on anti-regulation zeal that does nothing for our future. Is short-term money all you care about? (rhetorical question)

A wise species ought to conserve oil, gas and coal at any price. You'd think the industry itself would seek future security by metering supplies to avoid worst-case peaking scenarios.

P.S. People who idle their engines for convenience, or drive too fast, or buy bigger vehicles when gas prices fall temporarily, are going to be grasping for scapegoats when Peak Oil becomes terminal. We could probably save a million barrels a day in America with a true conservation ethic.

How about you ask hour idol algore how HE conserves these resources???????
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