Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
What's the big deal? Heck, I like consuming. It's a lot more enjoyable than producing. The Chinese like having to work and I like having the latest iPhone. It seems like a good deal and I'm sure it'll continue this way forever. The Chinese will build stuff, we'll pay for it with U.S. dollars that we print, and then they can lend the dollars back to us so we can consume more.
Very good as long as the consumer makes enough money to buy all that Made in China junk. A lot of people are more interested in wondering how they're going to pay rent or the utility bills. But then accomplishing that is another way to consume.
What's the big deal? Heck, I like consuming. It's a lot more enjoyable than producing. The Chinese like having to work and I like having the latest iPhone. It seems like a good deal and I'm sure it'll continue this way forever. The Chinese will build stuff, we'll pay for it with U.S. dollars that we print, and then they can lend the dollars back to us so we can consume more.
Well, to answer your question, lets start with the most important question we must ask anytime we are trying to understand what is "good" and what is "bad"... "Does it make us happy?"
Consumerism is really just one-part hedonism and one-part materialism. So does hedonism and materialism make us happy?
Which always reminded me of what I would always say about every job I ever had. I never really minded the work, what made the job good or bad, was the people. If you like your co-workers, in almost ever case, you like your job. If you dislike your co-workers, in almost ever case, you dislike your job.
So is consumerism "natural"? Well, "kind of". Humans have actually lived in relatively egalitarian tribes built on social cooperation most of their existence on this Earth. Consumerism, at least in the form of modern capitalism/materialism/hedonism, tends to be the opposite of both cooperation and egalitarianism. It is entirely based on "competition". Not only with people of "other tribes", but also among members of the same tribe. This nature of social competition, even with family and friends, leads to the breakdown of relationships.
Everyone spends all their time "keeping score", and making comparisons, and trying to "one-up" each other. Any relationship built on "keeping score", whether friendships or love, is doomed to failure.
Furthermore, consumerism/materialism, is fundamentally tied to "capitalism". Especially "industrial/commercial/financial capitalism". The byproduct of all capitalism, is a shift of ownership of resources(especially land), away from individuals/families/communities, into the hands of business/corporations. This system tends to remove the ability for individuals to be "self-sufficient" from their own labor, and instead, to become completely dependent on their employer, and the market.
This dependency on others, especially employers, tends to breed envy and jealousy. And those who have the most, tend not to be the people who produce the most for themselves through their own labor. But rather, tend to be the people most able to exploit the labor of others for their maximum profit.
This quote from Jefferson explains it quite well.... "Those who labor in the earth are the chosen people of God, if ever he had a chosen people, whose breasts he has made his peculiar deposit for substantial and genuine virtue. It is the focus in which he keeps alive that sacred fire, which otherwise might escape from the face of the earth. Corruption of morals in the mass of cultivators is a phenomenon of which no age nor nation has furnished an example. It is the mark set on those, who not looking up to heaven, to their own soil and industry, as does the husbandman, for their subsistence, depend for it on the casualties and caprice of customers. Dependence begets subservience and venality, suffocates the germ of virtue, and prepares fit tools for the designs of ambition."
Now, I am not opposed to capitalism in its absolute, I am quite a supporter of the free-market. But we do not live in a world of free markets. Which is exactly why we are able to buy goods so cheaply from China. They manipulate their economy, they manipulate their currency, and they manipulate their labor markets. And especially egregious, they have reduced many to the level of slavery and internal displacement. If we lived in a world of free markets, we would not have offshored all of our manufacturing to China, and we would not be importing underpriced consumer goods from China.
If we accept the idea that consumerism/materialism itself doesn't make us any happier. Then what is the actual effect of this world economic system? More specifically, who benefits and who loses?
Well, to some extent you could argue that the "American people" benefit. But in reality, some benefit far more than others. And some people actual lose in this system. The main beneficiaries are any business/corporation which is "international"(IE international bankers/international corporations). Some groups lose, but even the people, who aren't multinational corporations, who ultimately benefit. They may benefit from greater access to consumer goods, but it comes at ever-increasing income/wealth inequality.
Which brings us back to another point about happiness. Happiness doesn't come from some absolute level of a material standard-of-living. The material standard-of-living has improved significantly over the last hundred years, but the people themselves are no happier today than they were a hundred years ago(and we might even be less happy).
In short, wealth doesn't make us happy, but wealth inequality makes us unhappy. And trade with China badly increases wealth inequality on both sides of the Pacific.
Now, to the extent that we have offloaded some our labor, especially our hard labor, to places like China. That does make work "easier" here in America, and many people in America don't work at all. But the question is, is that a good thing?
Well, this relative idleness has partially led to an obesity epidemic. Obesity, lack of exercise, and just generally unhealthy lifestyles, are having a serious impact on the people in this country. Not only are people becoming less health, the virtue which comes from independence and hard work, has been slowly dying as well. As a Christian might realize, "idle hands are the devil's playthings".
Even worse, this world economic system requires a "world trade policeman", shortened to "world police". The hatred aimed at America is the result of our meddling in the internal affairs of foreign nations, which is required to stabilize the world system of trade. America has military bases in the majority of the countries on the Earth, for the sole purpose of maintaining the world trade network.
In conclusion, your "system" destroys happiness, relationships, independence, virtue/morality, culture, communities, and the environment. And replaces it with materialism, hedonism, obesity, substance abuse, poor health, depression, suicide, wealth inequality, debt-slavery, hatred/distrust, and aggressive militarism/foreign policy.
Last edited by Redshadowz; 06-19-2015 at 07:16 AM..
Well, to answer your question, lets start with the most important question we must ask anytime we are trying to understand what is "good" and what is "bad"... "Does it make us happy?"
Consumerism is really just one-part hedonism and one-part materialism. So does hedonism and materialism make us happy?
Which always reminded me of what I would always say about every job I ever had. I never really minded the work, what made the job good or bad, was the people. If you like your co-workers, in almost ever case, you like your job. If you dislike your co-workers, in almost ever case, you dislike your job.
So is consumerism "natural"? Well, "kind of". Humans have actually lived in relatively egalitarian tribes built on social cooperation most of their existence on this Earth. Consumerism, at least in the form of modern capitalism/materialism/hedonism, tends to be the opposite of both cooperation and egalitarianism. It is entirely based on "competition". Not only with people of "other tribes", but also among members of the same tribe. This nature of social competition, even with family and friends, leads to the breakdown of relationships.
Everyone spends all their time "keeping score", and making comparisons, and trying to "one-up" each other. Any relationship built on "keeping score", whether friendships or love, is doomed to failure.
Furthermore, consumerism/materialism, is fundamentally tied to "capitalism". Especially "industrial/commercial/financial capitalism". The byproduct of all capitalism, is a shift of ownership of resources(especially land), away from individuals/families/communities, into the hands of business/corporations. This system tends to remove the ability for individuals to be "self-sufficient" from their own labor, and instead, to become completely dependent on their employer, and the market.
This dependency on others, especially employers, tends to breed envy and jealousy. And those who have the most, tend not to be the people who produce the most for themselves through their own labor. But rather, tend to be the people most able to exploit the labor of others for their maximum profit.
This quote from Jefferson explains it quite well.... "Those who labor in the earth are the chosen people of God, if ever he had a chosen people, whose breasts he has made his peculiar deposit for substantial and genuine virtue. It is the focus in which he keeps alive that sacred fire, which otherwise might escape from the face of the earth. Corruption of morals in the mass of cultivators is a phenomenon of which no age nor nation has furnished an example. It is the mark set on those, who not looking up to heaven, to their own soil and industry, as does the husbandman, for their subsistence, depend for it on the casualties and caprice of customers. Dependence begets subservience and venality, suffocates the germ of virtue, and prepares fit tools for the designs of ambition."
Now, I am not opposed to capitalism in its absolute, I am quite a supporter of the free-market. But we do not live in a world of free markets. Which is exactly why we are able to buy goods so cheaply from China. They manipulate their economy, they manipulate their currency, and they manipulate their labor markets. And especially egregious, they have reduced many to the level of slavery and internal displacement. If we lived in a world of free markets, we would not have offshored all of our manufacturing to China, and we would not be importing underpriced consumer goods from China.
If we accept the idea that consumerism/materialism itself doesn't make us any happier. Then what is the actual effect of this world economic system? More specifically, who benefits and who loses?
Well, to some extent you could argue that the "American people" benefit. But in reality, some benefit far more than others. And some people actual lose in this system. The main beneficiaries are any business/corporation which is "international"(IE international bankers/international corporations). Some groups lose, but even the people, who aren't multinational corporations, who ultimately benefit. They may benefit from greater access to consumer goods, but it comes at ever-increasing income/wealth inequality.
Which brings us back to another point about happiness. Happiness doesn't come from some absolute level of a material standard-of-living. The material standard-of-living has improved significantly over the last hundred years, but the people themselves are no happier today than they were a hundred years ago(and we might even be less happy).
In short, wealth doesn't make us happy, but wealth inequality makes us unhappy. And trade with China badly increases wealth inequality on both sides of the Pacific.
Now, to the extent that we have offloaded some our labor, especially our hard labor, to places like China. That does make work "easier" here in America, and many people in America don't work at all. But the question is, is that a good thing?
Well, this relative idleness has partially led to an obesity epidemic. Obesity, lack of exercise, and just generally unhealthy lifestyles, are having a serious impact on the people in this country. Not only are people becoming less health, the virtue which comes from independence and hard work, has been slowly dying as well. As a Christian might realize, "idle hands are the devil's playthings".
Even worse, this world economic system requires a "world trade policeman", shortened to "world police". The hatred aimed at America is the result of our meddling in the internal affairs of foreign nations, which is required to stabilize the world system of trade. America has military bases in the majority of the countries on the Earth, for the sole purpose of maintaining the world trade network.
In conclusion, your "system" destroys happiness, relationships, independence, virtue/morality, culture, communities, and the environment. And replaces it with materialism, hedonism, obesity, substance abuse, poor health, depression, suicide, wealth inequality, debt-slavery, hatred/distrust, and aggressive militarism/foreign policy.
What's the big deal? Heck, I like consuming. It's a lot more enjoyable than producing. The Chinese like having to work and I like having the latest iPhone. It seems like a good deal and I'm sure it'll continue this way forever. The Chinese will build stuff, we'll pay for it with U.S. dollars that we print, and then they can lend the dollars back to us so we can consume more.
There's nothing wrong with it unless you're a totalitarian leftist that thinks the road to Utopia is based on the control of the lives of individuals by an elite few. Then of course, it is anathema to everything you believe in. You should, by God, be required to stand in line for toilet paper for the good of the collective.
There's nothing wrong with it unless you're a totalitarian leftist that thinks the road to Utopia is based on the control of the lives of individuals by an elite few. Then of course, it is anathema to everything you believe in. You should, by God, be required to stand in line for toilet paper for the good of the collective.
Uh hey Wanderer, you must still be wandering because that is EXACTLY what we have today, and have had since 1913.
The Federal Reserve is privately owned and controlled and internationally minded. Their self-deemed
"too big to fail" banks control more of our economy than ever in our history.
A society should have complete control over their own currency and financial systems and money should be issued debt free, to truly have a free market.
Uh hey Wanderer, you must still be wandering because that is EXACTLY what we have today.
The Federal Reserve is privately owned and controlled and internationally minded. Their self-deemed
"too big to fail" banks control more of our economy than ever in our history.
As soon as someone sticks the phrase "Federal Reserve" into a conversation everything else they say should be ignored because pretty quickly the Illuminati and Bilderbergers and Reptilian Overlords come out and you realize that you're dealing with someone with only a remote connection to reality. How's your tin foil supply doing?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If so, you're a hypocrite.
