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(2) PROVIDING they choose a government of which the USA approves !
IF the Iraqis chose (democratically) to empower a theocratic, fundamentalist Islamic regime , how do you reckon the US. would respond.
Pretty much the same way they did in Chile and a whole bunch of other places I reckon.
They would impose their will militarilly and to hell with the wishes of the country involved.
I'm sorry their vote didn't go as you had hoped and instead validated the desire by most humans for self-determination and freedom.
" I'm sorry their vote didn't go as you had hoped (?) and instead validated the desire by most humans for self-determination and freedom."
The Chileans "desired" self-determination and Freedom too.
They elected Allende by an overwhelming majority.
The CIA Dirty-tricks Department deposed him and instaled the tyrant Pinochet.
Thousands were murdered.
The Vietnamese "desired" self-determination and freedom too.
They eventually got it - after millions had perished.
Iran did not choose the Shah.
The USA imposed him upon them. Many suffered.
Even the Hawaiins did not CHOOSE to become part of the USA.
It was imposed upon them.
One could go on and on.
But what's the point if most Americans are in denial.
Just one site - but Google for yourselves. There are hundreds of reliable sources.
U.S. invasion responsible deaths of over 250,000 civilians in Iraq
Original address http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/home/Iraq_war.php (broken link) by John Stokes
"New studies make the Bush administration's "liberation" argument for a 'pre-emptive' war against Iraq seem questionable.
The invasion of Iraq in March 2003 by U.S.-led coalition forces has been responsible for the death of at least 150,000 civilians (not including certain of Iraq), reveals a compilitation of scientific studies and corroborated eyewitness testimonies.
The majority of these deaths, which are in addition those normally expected from natural causes, illness and accidents, have been among women and children, documents a well-researched study, that had been released by The Lancet Medical Journal.
The report in the British journal is based on the work of teams from the Johns Hopkins University and Columbia University in the U.S., and the Al-Mustansiriya University in Baghdad.
The most common cause of death is as a direct result of a worsening 'culture of violence', mostly caused by indiscriminate U.S. co-ordinated air strikesand related military interventions ....
The overall risk of death was 1.5 times more after the invasion than before.
The figure of 100,000 had been based on somewhat "conservative assumptions", notes Les Roberts at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, Baltimore, U.S., who led the study.
That estimate excludes Falluja, a hotspot for violence. If the data from this town is included, the compiled studies point to about 250,000 excess deaths since the outbreak of the U.S.-led war."
The Lancet, Johns Hopkins and Columbia University, I humbly suggest, are hardly rabid left-wing bodies.
If you like, I'll dig out a few dozen more sources including returned American service personnel, the Red Cross, the United Nations, independent journalists, diplomatic staff, Iraqi hospital and undertaking personnel etc etc etc etc
But will anybody read them ?
There is heaps of evidence - IF you are genuinely interested spend half an hour in Google. But I know few will.
Last edited by Auntie Freda; 02-06-2008 at 06:52 AM..
[CENTER] Just one site - but Google for yourselves. There are hundreds of reliable sources. U.S. invasion responsible deaths of over 250,000 civilians in Iraq
Original address http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/home/Iraq_war.php (broken link)[/CENTER]
First off - your link does not work - would you check it please? Thanks
Then, an opinion address is not "proof".
For instance, I know quite a few members of our military in Iraq. I have seen pictures, of mass graves, of Iraqis killed by Saddam's regime. One grave had over 5,000 people in it. They were thrown in on top of each other. Then covered with dirt. Many of such situations have been covered by the news media
First off - your link does not work - would you check it please? Thanks
Then, an opinion address is not "proof".
For instance, I know quite a few members of our military in Iraq.
I have seen pictures, of mass graves, of Iraqis killed by Saddam's regime.
One grave had over 5,000 people in it.
They were thrown in on top of each other. Then covered with dirt. Many of such situations have been covered by the news media
You're right. That link doesn't work. I had the piece saved in Word from a previous similar discussion and didn't check that it was still current. I grovel.
But not to worry - I'll find you heaps of others as time permits.
I have no reason to doubt your anecdotal story but would respectfully suggest that the British Lancet, Johns Hopkins and Columbia Uni might be at least as credible ?
You're right. That link doesn't work. I had the piece saved in Word from a previous similar discussion and didn't check that it was still current. I grovel.
But not to worry - I'll find you heaps of others as time permits.
I have no reason to doubt your anecdotal story but would respectfully suggest that the British Lancet, Johns Hopkins and Columbia Uni might be at least as credible ?
Actually no - they are highly biased.
The fact is, Iraqis killing Iraqis are the reason for so many Iraqi civilian deaths - not the military.
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,329 posts, read 54,373,658 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auntie Freda
" I'm sorry their vote didn't go as you had hoped (?) and instead validated the desire by most humans for self-determination and freedom."
The Chileans "desired" self-determination and Freedom too.
They elected Allende by an overwhelming majority.
The CIA Dirty-tricks Department deposed him and instaled the tyrant Pinochet.
Thousands were murdered.
The Vietnamese "desired" self-determination and freedom too.
They eventually got it - after millions had perished.
Iran did not choose the Shah.
The USA imposed him upon them. Many suffered.
Even the Hawaiins did not CHOOSE to become part of the USA.
It was imposed upon them.
One could go on and on.
But what's the point if most Americans are in denial.
Most of the time whether you're labeled Liberator or Oppressor is dependent solely on who's looking and very often has nothing to do with fact.
" I'm sorry their vote didn't go as you had hoped (?) and instead validated the desire by most humans for self-determination and freedom."
The Chileans "desired" self-determination and Freedom too.
They elected Allende by an overwhelming majority.
The CIA Dirty-tricks Department deposed him and instaled the tyrant Pinochet.
Thousands were murdered.
The Vietnamese "desired" self-determination and freedom too.
They eventually got it - after millions had perished.
Iran did not choose the Shah.
The USA imposed him upon them. Many suffered.
Even the Hawaiins did not CHOOSE to become part of the USA.
It was imposed upon them.
One could go on and on.
But what's the point if most Americans are in denial.
You mean, much like Austrailia did in East Timor?
You can't go on and on. You've covered it pretty well. Now, weigh this against all of our humanitarian efforts. In this case, I COULD go on and on.
*The U.S. is the largest donor to the United Nations' World Food Program
*In 2000, US relief aid totalled nearly $1.2 billion, around a
third of all humanitarian assistance. Australia's not even on the list of the top 12.
*The U.S. leads the world in the fight against AIDS, providing more than half of all bilateral Global HIV/AIDS funding.
*The U.S. is the largest bilateral donor of food and medicine to the Palestinian people.
*America is by far the largest donor of food to the people of Darfur, where we have supplied more than half the emergency food aid from the entire world. Since the start of the conflict in 2003, America has spent nearly $1 billion feeding the hungry there.
*The Navy hospital ship USS Mercy visited areas of Southeast Asia ravaged by the tsunami last year.
*When earthquakes devastated Pakistan, American military helicopters rushed emergency relief to thousands of people.
*15 countries in Africa will receive an infusion of expertise and $1.5 billion to prevent malaria. The result is the opportunity to save the lives of 3,000 children a day and more than a million people a year who now die from this terrible disease.
*U.S. forces are improving water supplies in Ecuador, flood barriers in Bangladesh, a medical clinic in Uganda and schools in Kyrgyzstan. Military experts train local residents to remove land mines in Nicaragua and Vietnam.
*It delivers 10,000 wheelchairs donated by an NGO called the Wheelchair Foundation to children in mine-affected countries.
*A second tsunami-detection system for the Indian Ocean will launch from Jakarta, Indonesia, as part of the $1 billion U.S. recovery, restoration and technical contribution to the region after the 9.1-magnitude earthquake and tsunami that devastated the area in 2004.
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