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They are absolutely theft when they're being taken from those "who have" simply because they've done well for themselves and used to subsidize those who "have not".
Baloney. The government functions paid for through taxes benefit all of society. Those at the top benefit the most.
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They aren't theft when they're being used to pave roads, pay for fighting men, or fund the necessary expenditures of a nation. They are unquestionably theft when monies are taken from one group and given to the other just to satiate the losers delusional desire for "fairness".
Whenever one man pays a higher tax than another, just because he has done well for himself, there is an example of an unjust theft.
So, if I read your words correctly, you surely must have a problem with the way Bush has shifted the tax burden away from the wealthiest and placed it on the middle class, while at the same time shaping policies that have elminated good-paying middle class jobs.
According to Bush policy, if you actually have to work for your money, you suck. If your "job" is to sit by the pool sipping drinks made for you by the domestic staff, waiting for the dividend check to arrive, then you deserve more breaks for all your strenuous effort.
The attitude that some rabid right wingers project is that they love America, except for all of the Americans living there. Myself, I don't understand that attitude.
Agreed. But what you fail to grasp is that taxes are not theft. And for some reason, you don't understand that government services benefit the wealthy far more than they benefit the rank and file.
Income taxes are theft. I have no choice but to pay them when I exchange labor for goods. If I object to paying them, I am met with force by federal agents.
It is possible to fund the government without income taxes... as we had before 1913 by using excise taxes.
Baloney. The government functions paid for through taxes benefit all of society. Those at the top benefit the most.
Jesus Christ, talk about a delusionally enthusiastic view of the government. An ENORMOUS amount of monies spent by the government go to benefit very narrow groups that AREN'T in the national interest.
This includes subsidies for certain industries and social "safety net" type hand-outs that are doled to those who don't work.
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So, if I read your words correctly, you surely must have a problem with the way Bush has shifted the tax burden away from the wealthiest and placed it on the middle class, while at the same time shaping policies that have elminated good-paying middle class jobs.
You don't understand the tax cuts. Most people who take your positions don't understand the tax cuts. The paying of taxes isn't an equal game.
As a result of mentalities such as yours, over the years, the burden on the highest earners has grown and grown and grown to the point that a minuscule number of high performing people pay the largest amount of taxes overall.
Your lame classist BS aside, it would make sense to me (based on logic, rather than jealousy) that if we are to lower taxes, it should be in consort with those who are actually paying taxes.
Furthermore, the Bush tax cuts aren't only for the "ultra wealthy". They're for a lot of people, including working class people who invest. It's the financially illiterate liberal who has a conception of personal finance and economics on par with any given retard renting his furniture who believes that anyone who invests is some sort of "hifalutin richy" and whenever we allow them to keep their money instead of taking it to pay for your bizarre view of a "collective good", we're doing something wrong... because after all... that money really belongs to the government, right?
Jesus Christ, talk about a delusionally enthusiastic view of the government. An ENORMOUS amount of monies spent by the government go to benefit very narrow groups that AREN'T in the national interest.
This includes subsidies for certain industries and social "safety net" type hand-outs that are doled to those who don't work.
You don't understand the tax cuts. Most people who take your positions don't understand the tax cuts. The paying of taxes isn't an equal game.
As a result of mentalities such as yours, over the years, the burden on the highest earners has grown and grown and grown to the point that a minuscule number of high performing people pay the largest amount of taxes overall.
Your lame classist BS aside, it would make sense to me (based on logic, rather than jealousy) that if we are to lower taxes, it should be in consort with those who are actually paying taxes.
Furthermore, the Bush tax cuts aren't only for the "ultra wealthy". They're for a lot of people, including working class people who invest. It's the financially illiterate liberal who has a conception of personal finance and economics on par with any given retard renting his furniture who believes that anyone who invests is some sort of "hifalutin richy" and whenever we allow them to keep their money instead of taking it to pay for your bizarre view of a "collective good", we're doing something wrong... because after all... that money really belongs to the government, right?
You're basically coming out in favor of the philosophies behind the military industrial complex.
No philosophy at all. Merely facts that aren't often enough stated in discussions such as this one. The government does not collect taxes and then hide them under a mattress or stick them in a coffee can. It spends them. Almost immediately. And under this President, it borrows quite a bit, and then spends that as well. All that spending is expected to amount to something between $2.9 and $3.0 trillion this year. Some private sector entity or other will be on the other side of all those expenditure transactions. And if you run a business, you either are one of those entities, or those entities become your own clients and customers. And receipts from those will turn right around to pay the salary of some private sector guy who will then log onto C-D and insist that not one dime of his income or wealth has ever come from the government. Meanwhile, the split between military and non-military expenditures might be a good topic for a different thread, but it simply isn't pertinent to this one.
They certainly are not. That's your personal misconception fed by radical right wing talking points. Taxes ARE the price you pay to be an AMERICAN. Ultraconservatives love to wrap themselves in the flag and talk a good fight about how much they love their country - until the bill arrives.
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I have no choice but to pay them when I exchange labor for goods. If I object to paying them, I am met with force by federal agents.
You certainly DO have a choice.
If taxes are so abhorrent to you and you feel no personal advantage to using the services provided by taxes, you can hole up in a hermit cabin in the boondocks. You could be the next Ted Kaczinsky. No running water, no sewer, no trash collection, no schools. Totally self-dependent and very minimal taxes, which you hate so much. That option is available to you. But if you want to be a part of society, taxes are the price of admission.
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It is possible to fund the government without income taxes... as we had before 1913 by using excise taxes.
Prior to 1913, many of the services you now take for granted didn't exist. They don't exist today without a means to pay for them.
Hey, I like to keep taxes low, myself. I don't relish sending that check to the IRS each April. But I understand that it's my obligation as an American to do so.
What I hate is wasteful, idiotic spending of those tax dollars. The kind of irresponsible spending we've seen over the past seven years. And you, I, and everyone we both know will be paying that bill for decades to come.
Jesus Christ, talk about a delusionally enthusiastic view of the government. An ENORMOUS amount of monies spent by the government go to benefit very narrow groups that AREN'T in the national interest.
This includes subsidies for certain industries and social "safety net" type hand-outs that are doled to those who don't work.
Calm down, please...
You've just confused taxes with spending.
And I agree that the spending has been absolutely out of control for the past seven years. We're staring at record deficits, with absolutely nothing to show for it. Our infrastructure has deteriorated horrendously, yet we're deeper in debt than at any time in our nation's history.
Bush came into office with a sizable budget surplus. He'll leave us in record debt. And what has all that spending gotten us? Lots of bomb craters in the middle east, for one. I'd be hard pressed to identify anything else it's bought us. Feel free to list anything substantive that Bush's mindless spending has purchased. Because I'd certainly like to know if there's anything.
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You don't understand the tax cuts. Most people who take your positions don't understand the tax cuts. The paying of taxes isn't an equal game.
As a result of mentalities such as yours, over the years, the burden on the highest earners has grown and grown and grown to the point that a minuscule number of high performing people pay the largest amount of taxes overall.
Your lame classist BS aside, it would make sense to me (based on logic, rather than jealousy) that if we are to lower taxes, it should be in consort with those who are actually paying taxes.
Furthermore, the Bush tax cuts aren't only for the "ultra wealthy". They're for a lot of people, including working class people who invest. It's the financially illiterate liberal who has a conception of personal finance and economics on par with any given retard renting his furniture who believes that anyone who invests is some sort of "hifalutin richy" and whenever we allow them to keep their money instead of taking it to pay for your bizarre view of a "collective good", we're doing something wrong... because after all... that money really belongs to the government, right?
Oh no you don't...
You can't dismiss me so cavalierly with your ultrasimplistic rhetoric.
And I understand this, too: the Feds have depended increasingly on "unfunded mandates" under Bush. All of these shift the tax burden from the federal level to the state and local levels, all to meet federal requirements. That means we all end up paying more taxes for federal policy, but it's hidden as state and local taxes.
Stow your silly "classist" accusations. Educate yourself to what's really happening, not what some radio talk show tells you is happening.
Our economy is in trouble, partly due to our huge foreign-held (mainly by Japan and China) debt and lack of government regulation of mindless mortgage lending in recent years. The worst part is that we're all on the hook to pay those debts off. And that'll be done through taxes.
Thank your main man Bush when the tax bill arrives.
But what you fail to grasp is that taxes are not theft. And for some reason, you don't understand that government services benefit the wealthy far more than they benefit the rank and file.
Excuse me?
Let's see - I work very hard to earn my income. The government comes along and demands that I pay taxes. Now, a portion of MY money goes to pay a welfare queen - or research for the sex habits of the firefly etc - yeah - I benefit from all this.
So, you think that somehow sets you apart from the rest of us taxpayers? We ALL work hard.
Except for those who live off dividends and trust funds. And they're the ones who benefit the most from these current tax breaks. Guys like you and me who actually work for a living get the short end of the stick.
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The government comes along and demands that I pay taxes. Now, a portion of MY money goes to pay a welfare queen - or research for the sex habits of the firefly etc - yeah - I benefit from all this.
I don't know anyone who likes paying for the stuff you listed. But ALL of that is a miniscule part of the taxes we pay. Instead of raising your blood pressure obsessing over those things, think about all the fire fighters, police officers, libraries, and university research labs that you're helping to pay for.
Now, if you want to get worked up over wasteful spending, think about $150 billion per year for the fiasco in Iraq. THAT's where we taxpayers are getting the shaft.
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Nope - theft. A very good, and descriptive word.
Well, that hermit's cabin out in the wilds of Montana is out there waiting for you. When you get to the point where you really hate being part of America, you can drop out. Whenever you're ready.
A more rational statement would be that some people are incapable of discerning between taxes (the price of living in ANY society) and theft.
Really! What hath Grover Norquist wrought? Taxes are theft in the same sense as that stick-up all those grocery stores pull off when you try to leave with your cartful of cookies and milk!
[And no, btw, eating and drinking are not voluntary.]
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An ENORMOUS amount of monies spent by the government go to benefit very narrow groups that AREN'T in the national interest.
