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Note that this study includes those have varying degrees of competency per the report (which is in Spanish, FYI). They didn't really specify what level non-native speakers needed to have.
Sorry I couldn't click on your links but I surmise that you couldn't match names to anyone who posts on CD. Stormfront is an idealogy just as La Raza is. I know that the former is a white supremicy group of which I have no use for and based on most of the comments I have read in here I don't see many that adhere to their agenda either. However, there are plenty in here that defend Mexicans and other Latinos coming here illegally and desire amnesty for them and that is what the group La Raza desires also. Could that be considered to be brown supremacy?
Cool. I'm fine with this. I do think immigrants should learn English, but it's not the end the world if it takes some time. It's harder on them than it is on us. We can complain about it to our other coworkers and friends; they might not have anyone to complain to. I pity them more than anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
And we have six times as many English speakers than England
They should go back to where they came from. Stealing our jobs...
(by the way, if someone without money, connections, or speaking the language steals your job, who's that really a critique of???)
(by the way, if someone without money, connections, or speaking the language steals your job, who's that really a critique of???)
I'm really over this argument.
It's absolute pompous arrogance of privileged American brats to view the world in this way.
Let's break it down: Not everyone can be a scholar, go to college and get a position as a doctor, lawyer or engineer. There is always a need for unskilled labor, construction work, etc. And that's OK. Humans vary in their intelligence and abilities.
When you deride people who complain about losses of jobs to illegal immigration, you're basically saying that someone who may not possess the intelligence to obtain a college or advanced degree (which, btw people, is like 6-7% of the American public possessing a post-grad degree), should understand that they will face competition for blue collar jobs from people who aren't even supposed to be here, and it's basically their own damn fault, even if they are hard working carpenters, mechanics, etc.
You also seem to live in a fantasy world where there's all these great non-blue collar opportunities for guys who would otherwise make a good living working in a factory, or building houses, or painting.
No, blue collar American folk should just deal with the fact that we keep importing people willing to come here, live 5-6 guys to a house and take a wage 1/2 of what an American would otherwise need to live and have a life and family. Because to not accept that situation will make people think you're a... RACIST, and being perceived as a racist is much worse than anything else in the whole world. Even when people's livelihoods and families are at stake.
There are about the same number of native Spanish speakers in the world as there are native English speakers, and not all that many of the native Spanish speakers are from Spain. So... the OP statement makes sense; it's what one would expect.
I'm really over this argument.
It's absolute pompous arrogance of privileged American brats to view the world in this way.
Let's break it down: Not everyone can be a scholar, go to college and get a position as a doctor, lawyer or engineer. There is always a need for unskilled labor, construction work, etc. And that's OK. Humans vary in their intelligence and abilities.
When you deride people who complain about losses of jobs to illegal immigration, you're basically saying that someone who may not possess the intelligence to obtain a college or advanced degree (which, btw people, is like 6-7% of the American public possessing a post-grad degree), should understand that they will face competition for blue collar jobs from people who aren't even supposed to be here, and it's basically their own damn fault, even if they are hard working carpenters, mechanics, etc.
You also seem to live in a fantasy world where there's all these great non-blue collar opportunities for guys who would otherwise make a good living working in a factory, or building houses, or painting.
No, blue collar American folk should just deal with the fact that we keep importing people willing to come here, live 5-6 guys to a house and take a wage 1/2 of what an American would otherwise need to live and have a life and family. Because to not accept that situation will make people think you're a... RACIST, and being perceived as a racist is much worse than anything else in the whole world. Even when people's livelihoods and families are at stake.
Right, and I don't really disagree, but here are a few thing to keep in mind. 0% of the people who make he argument 'they're stealing our jobs' work in the jobs that the illegal immigrants are generally taking. An American citizen who will work in those jobs will much of the time get the job first if they are truly hardworking. And of course, many of the people who will agree with what you say will say 'get some skills and find a better job' if someone points out these jobs don't pay well.
I believe that trade deals like NAFTA and other obviously BS international agreements that allow mass outsourcing need to be repealed and those jobs need to be brought back to the US. I support those who work the low skills jobs and believe there's no shame in working them.
Right, and I don't really disagree, but here are a few thing to keep in mind. 0% of the people who make he argument 'they're stealing our jobs' work in the jobs that the illegal immigrants are generally taking. An American citizen who will work in those jobs will much of the time get the job first if they are truly hardworking. And of course, many of the people who will agree with what you say will say 'get some skills and find a better job' if someone points out these jobs don't pay well.
I believe that trade deals like NAFTA and other obviously BS international agreements that allow mass outsourcing need to be repealed and those jobs need to be brought back to the US. I support those who work the low skills jobs and believe there's no shame in working them.
Well, what fields do you believe illegal immigrants dominate?
Construction is a field where you can see it most visibly. In states with large illegal immigration populations, you will see Mexicans/Central Americans dominating the construction crews.
Go to states with little illegal population and surprise surprise, you'll see white and black guys doing construction and the rest of those jobs that Americans supposedly don't want to do.
And often, once you get a Hispanic foreman working, forget it. They will often prefer to hire other Hispanics. It's like the "white" good old boy network -- pero en Espanol. Por ejemplo: Miami-Dade County, Florida!
I just feel that this is a major issue that really does affect people on our lowest economic rungs, and the entire debate is obfuscated by claims of real and perceived racism, of inability to confront the ethnicist voting blocs, and lame resort to platitudes about how our entire economy would apparently collapse and we won't have any food to eat (despite laws already being in place to ensure LEGAL migrant work programs for any true demonstrable need for same).
Ultimately I do disagree with the phrase, "they took our jobs!" though, because those jobs are being given away by Capitalists in America, who lack the populist concern for Americans and our invited immigrants, in favor of concern over next quarter's dividends.
We're traditionally an English speaking nation though. The fact that we're now the second largest Spanish speaking country is pretty significant IMO.
India has more people who speak English than the US.
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