Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Some people despise illegals, including the vast majority of people in this forum, and that's fine, the reality, however, is that hispanic illegals are essential to our country, without them our economy would collapse, in fact our economy has depended on cheap labor since the very beginning, first it was the slaves, then the alternating waves of immigrants, and more recently hispanics, and as illegals grow upwardly in our society, we need replacements for them, I just hope they don't stop coming...
Good, I think we need a good economic collapse. People are too self centered and I firmly believe it's because of rampant consumerism. People get mad when their phone takes an extra 10 seconds to load their friends Instagram picture. For clarity, they're mad because the ability to quickly and easily see a photo of a friend, that has existed only for this decade, is going slower than it usually does.
If our economy cannot survive without exploiting people, then I don't care if it does. Paying people cheap because they're no supposed to be here in unfair to the illegal immigrant who's not being paid enough, but especially unfair to the legal immigrants and other US citizens who now have on more job unavailable to them.
The ends should not justify the means. Just because many Americans can now buy an iPhone doesn't mean it's ok for us to exploit cheap labor or outsource work to get to that point.
Well, facts are facts just review the study by the pew research center, regarding crime incidence among illegals, I respect the fact that you don't like illegals, my position is that they are needed, and current forces will make them be in demand for the foreseeable future....
The other day Geraldo Rivera was arguing with Eric Boling on The Five, essentially saying the same thing you are.
Then Boling came back with different figures from a government source. Frankly I have not done enough of my own research to know one way or the other, though it seems as if you are minimizing the problem. Remember stats can be very misleading depending on the focus of the studies or even how the information is disseminated.
I've seen both sides cherry pick stats which bolster their side, and leave out things that bolster the other side.
I recently read this article which you may find interesting;
Regardless you seem to have brushed aside my critique of your sweeping generalizations of mass murder as if it is commonplace.
You also failed to address my direct questions to you. To engage in a civil discussion, it requires some given and take. Hopefully you will reciprocate.
I ask again, if we truly needed more foreign labor then why hasn't our government increased the visas for legal immigrants? I never get an answer from the pro-illegals in here. The reason is obvious we have 23 million unemployed Americans now. Those who are employed in the blue-collar industries have had their wages reduced due to cheap, illegal labor. The pro-illegals refuse to answer those questions and just disregard the facts.
[quote=Oldglory;40626998]I ask again, if we truly needed more foreign labor then why hasn't our government increased the visas for legal immigrants?
Those who are employed in the blue-collar industries have had their wages reduced due to cheap, illegal labor.
You may be right about that, but we all benefit from a competitive market, if anyone likes getting ripped-off by blue collar workers, good for them, but don't include me please.
You may be right about that, but we all benefit from a competitive market, if anyone likes getting ripped-off by blue collar workers, good for them, but don't include me please.
Ok, first of all, you need to include the closing 'quote' tag.
Secondly, what are you even saying here? He isn't maybe right. He is right. Most corporations lack ethics; if they can get someone to do a less than popular job for very little money who literally can't complain, they'll do it. That means the American guy who needs that job can't get it.
You're right that we benefit from a competitive market, but do you not get how bad it is to have illegal immigrants working? If you support human rights, you should be very against this. They pay illegal immigrants less than they would for a legal worker to do it, and it's usually jobs that aren't too pleasant. They can give them longer hours and treat them less humanely too. Do you know why? They literally can't do anything about it. Most other workers could complain to the government. Illegal immigrants can't. Because while it would technically solve the issue of working conditions, it would draw attention to the fact that they're undocumented workers and they'd be deported.
"If you support human rights, you should be very against this. They pay illegal immigrants less than they would for a legal worker to do it, and it's usually jobs that aren't too pleasant. They can give them longer hours and treat them less humanely too. Do you know why? They literally can't do anything about it. "
Don't worry, illegals don't mind any of these things, otherwise they wouldn't be here...
"If you support human rights, you should be very against this. They pay illegal immigrants less than they would for a legal worker to do it, and it's usually jobs that aren't too pleasant. They can give them longer hours and treat them less humanely too. Do you know why? They literally can't do anything about it. "
Don't worry, illegals don't mind any of these things, otherwise they wouldn't be here...
So they chose the lesser of the two evils. That doesn't make it ok. If a slave doesn't know any better; that they don't have to be a slave, does that mean the slave owner isn't doing something morally reprehensible?
It's also not just about the illegal immigrant. You completely ignored the fact that people who can work legally will not be selected for these jobs if people who aren't able to complain when they are mistreated or paid insufficiently are available.
So they chose the lesser of the two evils. That doesn't make it ok. If a slave doesn't know any better; that they don't have to be a slave, does that mean the slave owner isn't doing something morally reprehensible?
It's also not just about the illegal immigrant. You completely ignored the fact that people who can work legally will not be selected for these jobs if people who aren't able to complain when they are mistreated or paid insufficiently are available.
It is the way things have worked in america for centuries....
It is the way things have worked in america for centuries....
And?
The fact that the last two response you've given me have been single sentences that are largely void of a greater point suggests to me that I've backed you into a corner and you're all out of talking points.
Like most americans, I am enraged with the killing of this young beautiful girl by an illegal person, and measures should be taken, I believe however, that this is a hyperbolic reaction triggered by entities with an agenda like fox news, and obviously all right wing radicals are game. What we need is a comprehensive immigration reform, that addresses these issues in a logical and non emotional fashion. We know that this is an extremely rare event, in fact, illegals, and recent legal immigrants are the groups of people with the lowest incidence of crime in the USA, meaning that the higher proportion of illegals in USA would result in a lower crime rate. On the other hand, we just experienced another mass murder today in LA, by another crazy white guy, and which has become the norm in our country, and I ask myself, where is the anger and outrage about this cases, which occur so often in our society... The idiotic response by the radical right is that guns dont kill people, god help us....
Illegals kill people to. Not such a rare event with all the parents showing up to testify before congress.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
