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Ahh the "principle" of it. No I'm dealing with the REALITY of it.
OK REALITY:A large number of people on welfare....are working.
A large portion of the balance-are disabled, elderly, or children.
The majority of the "free handouts" that are spent by our government? Medical care.
What % of our GDP do you think is spent on welfare (TANF), and food stamps?
Food stamps: 0.45% of GDP (and falling)
TANF: The cash portion of it is 27% of the entire budget for the program, child care, work support etc make up the rest, but lets just use the whole program cost shall we? Looks like... 0.1%
But wait...lets also include HUD-IE "free housing" (although its not really free, and the waitlist in my area is about a decade.....with a lottery to get on the waitlist. another...0.16% of GDP
Huh.
How about old folks? Medicare: 3.4% of GDP
So really a much larger problem is all the old folks getting medical help. Maybe you should think of a way to deal with that first? You know, focus on the blood gushing out of the artery on the patient, instead of the scrape on the knee?
Oh wait...that doesnt fit in with your whole "hate the poor mantra"
I dont hate the poor at all (the responsible ones).
I dont hate the poor at all (the responsible ones).
I hate the system that is used and abused.
Military spending represents 3.5% of our GDP
The system isnt being used and abused nearly as much as you seem to think. The MAJORITY of the poor are responsible ones. Many work. But what you are doing is using the worst examples....and making all of them that example in your mind.
Are some of them the users,and abusers. Oh gods yes. I wish those people nothing but ill. I despise them. But I know a lot of people who arent those people.
I know people working hard at minimum wage jobs, trying to find something better.....and getting food stamps.
Require all non skilled minimum wage or there about businesses / positions to be registered and filled by the government.
Government fills these positions with eligible people.
Who constitutes as eligible people? You know who this will hurt? Minors. As it is, minimum wage work really doesn't cover the cost of college anymore, and adding this for them to jump through hurts them. Also, do you think those companies will want the government controlling who they hire? Because they defiantly don't. Stores like Walmart might go for it, but not massive corporate chains. Hell, even regional chains won't be thrilled.
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Originally Posted by Tyrion Grey
If there is no job available at the moment you will be eligible for welfare.
There are almost always jobs available. My local Walmart has been advertising that they're hiring all summer. People need incentive to work.
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Originally Posted by Tyrion Grey
While on welfare you must continue to apply to jobs weekly.
I agree.
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Originally Posted by Tyrion Grey
There will be random drug testing of said people.
I do not agree.
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Originally Posted by Tyrion Grey
In addition, if placed in a job and you get fired numerous times for your conduct the job placement and welfare money will cease.
Could be fair. I think there's a bigger discussion to be had here though.
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Originally Posted by Tyrion Grey
After two failed drug tests you will be kicked out of the program and welfare.
I think after one case of being found using or buying drugs while on welfare, you should be required to use your welfare money to get you into a program.
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Originally Posted by Tyrion Grey
While on welfare you must do x amount of community work / service each week.
If they're unemployed, this can be reasonable. But they also should be spending time looking for jobs.
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Originally Posted by Tyrion Grey
Could also have state owned factories or farms and put these people to work.
The system isnt being used and abused nearly as much as you seem to think. The MAJORITY of the poor are responsible ones. Many work. But what you are doing is using the worst examples....and making all of them that example in your mind.
Are some of them the users,and abusers. Oh gods yes. I wish those people nothing but ill. I despise them. But I know a lot of people who arent those people.
I know people working hard at minimum wage jobs, trying to find something better.....and getting food stamps.
Thats reality.
The problem is we make it way to easy to use and abuse the system.
The problem is we make it way to easy to use and abuse the system.
Something needs to change.
Like?
Hey did you know lots of things get used and abused?
Theres a poster here who is a Conservative that brags about being able to write off all the costs of their pet, because they include them in a picture for their business?
Hey did you know we're building planes...then flying them to the boneyard for long term storage?
Hey did you ever hear about "carried interest"?
The amount of "use and abuse" in the grand scheme of things by welfare and TANF is tiny compared to so many other things...and yet over and over its all about punishing the poor here. Its disgusting. And offensive.
Theres no real solution that doesnt seem to punish people, the working poor oftem. The solutions presented all revolve around punishing 95% of the people out there for the other 5%'s actions.
It won't be long till the dollar tanks , and all these issues are moot.
Those that have chosen to be unskilled ,will have no value in a work force that demands actual work to barter for food, clothing, and shelter.
Those that do have the skills to barter for work, won't be giving anything away to the useless vagabond.
I am not against helping the poor. contrare' I help the poor from time to time, but I'm not a facilitator, encouraging people to live that way.
I have been poor and homeless, but I have never been on welfare or taken unemployment, though some thought I should.
I pursued work till I found it, and worked hard to keep it, and moved on when it became necessary.
I have also prepared my self in the event of a disaster, large or small , national or personal or
all of the above.
IMO ,one that assumes disaster will never come, is the one soon to be in poverty, the moment it occurs.
Who constitutes as eligible people? You know who this will hurt? Minors. As it is, minimum wage work really doesn't cover the cost of college anymore, and adding this for them to jump through hurts them. Also, do you think those companies will want the government controlling who they hire? Because they defiantly don't. Stores like Walmart might go for it, but not massive corporate chains. Hell, even regional chains won't be thrilled.
More important for struggling grownups with kids to have these jobs than minors. I had a job all in high school as a middle class kid solely to to buy video games, go on dates, etc. Most my friends as well.
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I do not agree.
You want to spend money on drug users? Da fug?
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Could be fair. I think there's a bigger discussion to be had here though.
Could be? It is. Why should the govt keep supporting someone that cant even keep a job due to their own foolishness?
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I think after one case of being found using or buying drugs while on welfare, you should be required to use your welfare money to get you into a program.
Programs rarely help but I wouldnt be opposed to it.
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If they're unemployed, this can be reasonable. But they also should be spending time looking for jobs.
Yea, half the time looking for a job. The other half doing community service.
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That should be up to the factories and farms.
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This would be government owned factories and farms primarily for said people.
Hey did you know lots of things get used and abused?
Theres a poster here who is a Conservative that brags about being able to write off all the costs of their pet, because they include them in a picture for their business?
Hey did you know we're building planes...then flying them to the boneyard for long term storage?
Hey did you ever hear about "carried interest"?
The amount of "use and abuse" in the grand scheme of things by welfare and TANF is tiny compared to so many other things...and yet over and over its all about punishing the poor here. Its disgusting. And offensive.
Theres no real solution that doesnt seem to punish people, the working poor oftem. The solutions presented all revolve around punishing 95% of the people out there for the other 5%'s actions.
Its illogical.
Because I personally used and abused the system when I got fired from work.
How is what I proposed hurting the 95%?
It is helping the responsible hard working people and punishing the ill-responsible lazy people.
Best suggestion so far: end them.
Every government redistribution scheme is immoral and there's no reforming that.
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