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This is obviously very controversial but imo, this is the key factor in whether abortions should be right or wrong. Does a fetus at ANY point from conception feel pain during an abortion? There is nothing worse in life than pain so this is the make or break for me. I've read articles saying that they can, they can't, they can only by a certain time frame etc. I honestly don't know who to believe. It seems like there's probably political agendas tied to each study too, like everything else. What source or study should I trust the most?
Even IF a fetus did feel pain during an abortion, why is that pain more relevant than the pain the mother will experience giving birth......pain that lasts a LOT longer?
And, what about the pain a fetus is going to feel when it is being forced through the birth canal? What do you suggest we do about that?
Should we force all women to have C-sections?
FACT: During most abortions, the fetus does not have the ability to feel pain. Even if some of the wiring is there, it is not hooked up.
The definition in and of itself equals a subjective experience/feeling/perception: you can't ask a fetus to rate their pain on a "happy to mean" face scale. You can't ask a newborn at 1 minute old to rate their pain. 10 year olds don't "get it".
Yet the nervous system is one of the first systems to be developed, in a fetus.
So you keep thinking what you need to.
I'm all for abortion. I understand that the fetus will feel pain. It's sad. It's horrible, but because I will never have to hear an aborted fetus tell me how painful it was to get torn apart I can deal with it.
It's a lot better than having a child live a life of physical/mental/emotional pain - because his/her parents are useless…and too stupid or selfish to put the baby up for adoption.
Time for you and your ilk to admit the same and stop pretending otherwise.
You don't feel pain if you are not aware of anything. Also, most scientists believe that pain is only capable of transmission through the nervous system at 26 weeks, and it is not recognized as pain until 28 weeks. Even the largest opposing views believe it's just before 20 weeks.
I'd tend to agree with this, but how bad is the pain during an abortion for the fetus? It could be absolutely MISERABLE, being crushed and sucked up by a vacuum like that. That **** could be worse than any pain post birth. I know there's no way of knowing for sure right now, but just throwing it out there...
Yes there is a way to know for sure......the nerves and pain receptors required to feel pain are not in working order.
No different than you not being able to feel your foot being cut off after your spinal cord is severed.
The connection required to feel pain is not there.
Even IF a fetus did feel pain during an abortion, why is that pain more relevant than the pain the mother will experience giving birth......pain that lasts a LOT longer?
And, what about the pain a fetus is going to feel when it is being forced through the birth canal? What do you suggest we do about that?
Should we force all women to have C-sections?
FACT: During most abortions, the fetus does not have the ability to feel pain. Even if some of the wiring is there, it is not hooked up.
Bottom line is we should choose the least painful option for the most innocent/helpless character in any circumstance.
I'm not gonna have empathy for a human life that's going to make mine miserable.
I can't believe that anyone let this slip by. What, exactly, do you mean? Are you talking about how you would have no empathy for a child you didn't want? Please, do explain.
Why wait for a court order if a health issue is in the balance? Can you say "nanny state"?
You're the one who brought up the idea of consistency between the death penalty and abortion. If prevention of killing is something you consider the part of a "nanny state", then that's what it is to you.
However, fundamentally, laws are based on ethics and morals. Killing a living thing must come with justification to do so on moral grounds. The judgement of those moral grounds is where the law comes into play.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwahfromtheheart
It's not an interesting legal debate in my view - that fetus certainly dies without the carriers bodily function, but at the same time it's causing the carrier hell and possibly will give that carrier hell in the future. At this point, it's a parasite. A parasitic life form doesn't deserve protection by the state in my view.
It is an interesting legal debate to those who study law.
While a fetus has a toll on the carrier's body, the fetus exist solely because of the carrier's actions of mounting her vagina on the penis (with exception to involuntary mounting). That is the fundamental point of discussion. The next 9 months is solely the commitment that the parent has made as a result of his/her actions. Beyond those 9 months, there are other moral and ethical options. However, for those 9 months, it's simply the duty of parent(s) to be fair to the life they have created and committed to.
Surely, if the parent(s) life is in danger as a result of the pregnancy, that must be considered. However, that provides justification to the killing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwahfromtheheart
However, an autonomous being such as a child rapist deserves a trial by jury, as it can assert a defense and possibly cast doubt that he never raped your daughter. But if he's in the act of raping your daughter, such as is the same as a parasite feeding on my internal organs and nutrients, then you have a right to terminate that life without a court order as well.
That seems pretty logical to me
We are obligated to provide a reasonable and just defense for those who cannot defend themselves. Our court system accommodates that and there is precedence for this.
No, I'm not that consistent actually. I don't think anybody should need a court order to stop a pestering growth in their body, especially if it could end in an injury or fatality. Or even if she doesn't want her vagina ripped open or guts pulled out.
Then maybe that imbecilic twit should learn to keep her damn legs closed.
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