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This thread could benefit from a couple of pertinent facts:
1 -- the embargo was not imposed because of an American temper tantrum. It was the result of the Castro regime nationalizing American owned property, mostly that of American oil companies. Whether or not you like oil companies, it was outright theft.
2 -- if Cuba has remained in the Stone Age its not because of the Embargo. Europeans and other Latin nations have been trading with Cuba for quite awhile. The Mexicans in particular have sunk hundreds of millions into Cuba.
3 -- in 2000, Bill Clinton relaxed the embargo to allow sales of medicine and food to Cuba. Cuba initially refused to accept the accommodation. Thereafter, the U.S. became (and remains? not sure) the largest exporter of agricultural goods to Cuba.
And all of the joy expressed about traveling to Cuba for vacations would be tempered by the realization that Cubans can never visit our country, at the risk of arrest and imprisonment by the Castro regime, if the posters expressing such happiness would reflect on the hypocrisy of enjoying onesself among what amounts to an island of political prisoners. But that would require the ability to discern the difference between right and wrong...
This thread could benefit from a couple of pertinent facts:
1 -- the embargo was not imposed because of an American temper tantrum. It was the result of the Castro regime nationalizing American owned property, mostly that of American oil companies. Whether or not you like oil companies, it was outright theft.
2 -- if Cuba has remained in the Stone Age its not because of the Embargo. Europeans and other Latin nations have been trading with Cuba for quite awhile. The Mexicans in particular have sunk hundreds of millions into Cuba.
3 -- in 2000, Bill Clinton relaxed the embargo to allow sales of medicine and food to Cuba. Cuba initially refused to accept the accommodation. Thereafter, the U.S. became (and remains? not sure) the largest exporter of agricultural goods to Cuba.
Well said, especially on #2. Cuba's problem isent the embargo ... it's the same problem that the rest of Latin America has: socialism with a heavy dose of endless anti-American rhetoric. Not to mention that Cuba illegally seized private property from Americans.
The Castro/PCC regime was on it's last legs, in December '14 we were maybe 2-3 years away from the downfall of the PCC regime. Now we gave them a lifeline, we are making them look legitimate. What message do you think this sends to people in Cuba who are yearning for free and fair elections and political parties other than the PCC?
We could have waited till Raul croaked and then sailed into Havana and took over.
When I think of a similar situation, I think of how Vietnam managed to open itself up to the outside world, and its government is much kinder than how it was in, say, the 1950s. (For those who didn't learn this in school, North Vietnam in the 1950s was a land of state executions of innocent people, death camps, and invasions of foreign lands. Thus, the bar is set pretty low.) Opening up relations with Vietnam has helped the people there in a lot of ways.
However, is this the best way to get rid of the Communists in the long run? Will Vietnam turn into the next China but without the international clout? By that, I mean having a decent market economy but with a lot of social restrictions. That makes for a livable, if scary and often corrupt, system. It remains to be seen how stable Chinese-style modern governance is and if it works on a smaller scale.
Basically, though, Vietnam got a bit better when the Soviets went away. Everything changed. It's not governed by classical death camp Communism anymore, at least not to the same degree. (You still have to watch what you say to avoid jail.)
How does the fall of the major Communist allies affect Cuba? Will they try to become their own sort of thing? Will they try to imitate China, and if they do, will it work? Will Communism die when the zombie corpses running the show finally kick off?
I hope they get rid of Communism altogether, and I hope the normalization of relations can possibly lead to that. We'll see.
. . . it's the same problem that the rest of Latin America has: socialism with a heavy dose of endless anti-American rhetoric.
Not to mention an unfortunate tendency to accept authoritarian leaders. It has been said that this results from the early influence of the Catholic Church. Whether this is true, I don't know, but the tendency is definitely there.
They obtained weapons but weren't free to decide whether to use them? That's an interesting definition of "obtain".
Interesting and accurate. The Cubans had the missiles, manned the launchers. The Russians had the final call on using them against the USA, which would have meant of course the end of the USSR.
Give Kruschev credit for not being as much of a homocidal murderer as Castro.
But wait. Castro is still there, vegetating. And his brother Raul gets to wear the fake combat fatigues and scream on the radio. These are the nuts, remember, who wanted to nuke us.
Now...why is it again we want to let them sell us panatellas and invite us into their cathouses?
Interesting and accurate. The Cubans had the missiles, manned the launchers. The Russians had the final call on using them against the USA, which would have meant of course the end of the USSR.
Give Kruschev credit for not being as much of a homocidal murderer as Castro.
But wait. Castro is still there, vegetating. And his brother Raul gets to wear the fake combat fatigues and scream on the radio. These are the nuts, remember, who wanted to nuke us.
Now...why is it again we want to let them sell us panatellas and invite us into their cathouses?
Because it's 2015.
And don't forget that we sponsored an attack on Cuba that failed.
Of course they wanted to nuke you. They weren't the only ones either. People tend to dislike bullies.
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