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I think a better approach to help the world would be support nations that seek to raise the bar for all of their people, not look to be a blow off valve for them so they can continue running an oligarchy (the direction the US is headed in itself if not already there) without fear of revolution.
Perhaps I neglected to make clear what I was saying.
I agree with you. As I said, if open borders is the goal (which I'm not invested in that, nor against it), other steps need to be taken in order to get there. Too often, people think we should just jump right to the ideal result. That usually is a really bad idea.
If open borders are ever to be achieved, opportunity needs to exist in more than just a handful of countries so that people aren't just flooding to the same 10 countries, which they kind of are now. The US (probably Canada as well, but to a lesser extent) and various European countries are all better compared to places in Latin America, the Middle East or Africa.
We should focus on ourselves before we try and solve the world's problems. If we can't take care of ourselves, there isn't a single smart reason (which that 'smart' part may be the problem...) that we should be dictating what others do or trying to shape the world. Countries, in there current state, should be spending more to better themselves rather than looking after others. That's not to say they should completely ignore the outside, but if we spend more on military (which is our ways of forcefully exporting American culture) than we do on things that matter back home, our priorities are messed up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Joshua
A nation without borders is not a nation.
Open borders doesn't necessarily mean there aren't borders.
Quote:
Originally Posted by golimar
It would be total chaos and anarchy with Taliban and ISIS flying into US.
but there isn't an American Leftists who doesn't like some form of anarchy.
The usual anti-left talking point is more government control. Now you're here saying they want anarchy. How exactly does that work? Because this is quite different than the use of fascist and socialist to describe the left, because at least there's some room for debate that the two aren't complete opposites (though history disagrees). But it's literally impossible to want anarchy and authoritarianism at the same time. This says to me you don't actually know what you're complaining about and just think you're supposed to complain about the "left," thus you're contributing nothing to the discussion.
The Koch Bros are long time advocates for open borders and therefore the CATO Institute leans that way.
At the same time, they also advocate for elimination of Minimum Wage, most labor laws, Worker's Comp and Welfare/ entitlements for all.
Jeb, Cruz, Rubio, Walker and Fiorina have been invited to the Koch Summit this weekend to address, meet and mingle with hand selected mega donors. Rand Paul fell out of favor and was not invited. He's toast.
This is the group that will provide about $1 billion into superpacs for the chosen one.
Last edited by middle-aged mom; 07-30-2015 at 08:34 AM..
The usual anti-left talking point is more government control. Now you're here saying they want anarchy. How exactly does that work? Because this is quite different than the use of fascist and socialist to describe the left, because at least there's some room for debate that the two aren't complete opposites (though history disagrees). But it's literally impossible to want anarchy and authoritarianism at the same time. This says to me you don't actually know what you're complaining about and just think you're supposed to complain about the "left," thus you're contributing nothing to the discussion.
Open borders has been a libertarian party policy stance for at least 20 years that I can recall. It's always been their contention that in the long run, open borders lead to greater personal freedom and a decrease in poverty rates - since people everywhere could vote with their feet.
I'm no registered libertarian, but I have to admit I'm in sympathy with the goals, if not the means. I think this article did a good job laying out the case. There's a serious human rights issue here.
Which is not helped by the usual suspects throwing around political labels pejoratively, and proving as they do that they really don't know or care what those labels mean.
Open borders has been a libertarian party policy stance for at least 20 years that I can recall. It's always been their contention that in the long run, open borders lead to greater personal freedom and a decrease in poverty rates - since people everywhere could vote with their feet.
I'm no registered libertarian, but I have to admit I'm in sympathy with the goals, if not the means. I think this article did a good job laying out the case. There's a serious human rights issue here.
Which is not helped by the usual suspects throwing around political labels pejoratively, and proving as they do that they really don't know or care what those labels mean.
It is part of a libertarian platform, but the problem is that it assumes the other libertarian policies are in place. As I said earlier, if poor immigrants don't get social services, then they don't cost anyone anything. You can afford to take in as many as you like. So yes, in a libertarian system it can work. In our current system, it can't. This is the problem with libertarianism. A lot of great ideas, but the ideas require each other in order for any individual idea to be workable.
It is part of a libertarian platform, but the problem is that it assumes the other libertarian policies are in place. As I said earlier, if poor immigrants don't get social services, then they don't cost anyone anything. You can afford to take in as many as you like. So yes, in a libertarian system it can work. In our current system, it can't. This is the problem with libertarianism. A lot of great ideas, but the ideas require each other in order for any individual idea to be workable.
What you say is true. I'd go further and say that if worker protections are removed, including the safety net, you could wind up with a globalized feudal system instead of the stated goals of increasing personal liberty and reducing global poverty.
I am not making a case for immigration to the US being further restricted or increased. I am one of the rare people these days who really doesn't have a strong opinion one way or the other. I'm just saying that using misapplied political labels to argue against open borders is just silly. There are real issues here - human rights, as I've said, which includes a discussion of how strong the police powers of government ought to be.
The Koch Bros are long time advocates for open borders and therefore the CATO Institute leans that way.
At the same time, they also advocate for elimination of Minimum Wage, most labor laws, Worker's Comp and Welfare/ entitlements for all.
Jeb, Cruz, Rubio, Walker and Fiorina have been invited to the Koch Summit this weekend to address, meet and mingle with hand selected mega donors. Rand Paul fell out of favor and was not invited. He's toast.
This is the group that will provide about $1 billion into superpacs for the chosen one.
It's scary and disgraceful. We must do something! Everyone must organize around candidates that do not take bribe money from these oligarchs. Bernie Sanders is the candidate I favor personally. His track record in standing up for the worker is hard to fault. Maybe someone else feel they need to support someone else (although I dont understand why ), but what is important is to elect candidates who work for the people not the oligarchy.
America is rapidly turning into a banana republic with a tiny aristocracy at the top.
If it were truly an intellectual debate, the border would have been sealed tight years ago.
Lefties work purely on emotion.....every day, every issue.
Another person who spends so much time on talk radio that they can't even see the painfully obvious.
Agribusiness is not "leftist" in any way shape or form, unless you are a complete imbecile. They are a major beneficiary of illegal immigrant labor.
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), but what is important is to elect candidates who work for the people not the oligarchy.
