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Once again Israel's misdeeds fall upon our shoulders. Yes militant muslims who also happen to be Palestinians have committed acts of terror against Israel. Israel has in turn committed even larger acts of terror. They use weapons purchased from the USA to punish the law abiding citizens in retribution for the minority.
They have bull dozed houses with the occupants still inside. They launch attacks against suspected villages and don't even make an attempt to minimize collateral damage.
They build walls often through peoples homes without regard to the occupants.
Israel claims to be the victims. Yes poke even a calm dog often enough and you will become the victim of a dog attack. The Palestinians are not without blame. But lets face it. They don't have M1A1 main battle tanks, F-15, F-16 fighter planes. Nor do they enjoy a blank check policy from the most powerful nation on earth. Kind of hard not to see that Israel is the bully. Kind of hard not to understand what is producing generation after generation of terrorists.
I hate terrorists for the cowards that they are. I hate that they target unarmed civilians especially children. Can we honestly say Israel isn't doing the same? Israel has broken just about every agreement they have made with Palestine.
What about Lebanon??? I see a trend. Israel attacks with a vengeance and relies on their Uncle Sam to protect them from punishment.
No its no surprise to me that the Palestinians hate the Israeli's. After all Israel does go out of its way to keep the feud raging.
If we were to be fair, and unbiased should we not be equally critical of Israel as we are their Arab neighbors in Syria? Israel our great ally who seems to take a great deal but return very little. I honestly believe we should cut aid to Israel by 25% every time they violate international law. Perhaps we would gain a measure of credibility in the region if we actually made an attempt to look at things in an unbiased manner.
Once again Israel's misdeeds fall upon our shoulders. Yes militant muslims who also happen to be Palestinians have committed acts of terror against Israel. Israel has in turn committed even larger acts of terror. They use weapons purchased from the USA to punish the law abiding citizens in retribution for the minority.
They have bull dozed houses with the occupants still inside. They launch attacks against suspected villages and don't even make an attempt to minimize collateral damage.
They build walls often through peoples homes without regard to the occupants.
Israel claims to be the victims. Yes poke even a calm dog often enough and you will become the victim of a dog attack. The Palestinians are not without blame. But lets face it. They don't have M1A1 main battle tanks, F-15, F-16 fighter planes. Nor do they enjoy a blank check policy from the most powerful nation on earth. Kind of hard not to see that Israel is the bully. Kind of hard not to understand what is producing generation after generation of terrorists.
I hate terrorists for the cowards that they are. I hate that they target unarmed civilians especially children. Can we honestly say Israel isn't doing the same? Israel has broken just about every agreement they have made with Palestine.
What about Lebanon??? I see a trend. Israel attacks with a vengeance and relies on their Uncle Sam to protect them from punishment.
No its no surprise to me that the Palestinians hate the Israeli's. After all Israel does go out of its way to keep the feud raging.
If we were to be fair, and unbiased should we not be equally critical of Israel as we are their Arab neighbors in Syria? Israel our great ally who seems to take a great deal but return very little. I honestly believe we should cut aid to Israel by 25% every time they violate international law. Perhaps we would gain a measure of credibility in the region if we actually made an attempt to look at things in an unbiased manner.
First of all, we SHOULD cut aid to Israel, and every other country by 100%.
Secondly, how can you say they dont worry about collateral damage? They have the power to kill every Palestinian man, woman and child. But they dont. In fact, they are more restrained than WE would be in the same situation. The Palestinians are actually targeting civilians while the Israelis are targeting the terrorists. You say it is a minority of Palestinians. I say that is nonsense. They elected Hamas to lead them.
You seem to have a lot of concern for the Palestinian's innocent civilians and none for the Israeli innocent civilians. I bet in your mind, there are no Israeli innocent civilians.
Are you referring to the OP? I don't see how you could draw that conclusion from the original post.
Once again Israel's misdeeds fall upon our shoulders. Yes militant muslims who also happen to be Palestinians have committed acts of terror against Israel. Israel has in turn committed even larger acts of terror. They use weapons purchased from the USA to punish the law abiding citizens in retribution for the minority.
They have bull dozed houses with the occupants still inside. They launch attacks against suspected villages and don't even make an attempt to minimize collateral damage.
They build walls often through peoples homes without regard to the occupants.
Israel claims to be the victims. Yes poke even a calm dog often enough and you will become the victim of a dog attack. The Palestinians are not without blame. But lets face it. They don't have M1A1 main battle tanks, F-15, F-16 fighter planes. Nor do they enjoy a blank check policy from the most powerful nation on earth. Kind of hard not to see that Israel is the bully. Kind of hard not to understand what is producing generation after generation of terrorists.
I hate terrorists for the cowards that they are. I hate that they target unarmed civilians especially children. Can we honestly say Israel isn't doing the same? Israel has broken just about every agreement they have made with Palestine.
What about Lebanon??? I see a trend. Israel attacks with a vengeance and relies on their Uncle Sam to protect them from punishment.
No its no surprise to me that the Palestinians hate the Israeli's. After all Israel does go out of its way to keep the feud raging.
If we were to be fair, and unbiased should we not be equally critical of Israel as we are their Arab neighbors in Syria? Israel our great ally who seems to take a great deal but return very little. I honestly believe we should cut aid to Israel by 25% every time they violate international law. Perhaps we would gain a measure of credibility in the region if we actually made an attempt to look at things in an unbiased manner.
You're right...they don't have all those advanced weapons, but Israel does. Israel could wipe them off the face of the map or drive them completely out of their country into the surrounding Arab nations (who should take them, anyway, if they really cared about them instead of just wanting to use them as a pawn in the war against Israel). Israel doesn't do that, however. They respond with pretty darn high restraint considering the situation.
Are you referring to the OP? I don't see how you could draw that conclusion from the original post.
Perhaps if you re-read the original post you will see what I mean. It is a very one sided post. It mentions that Israel responded to rocket attacks from Gaza but did not mention any injured or dead Israelis or condemnation of the terrorists firing off the rockets. Only that Israel is bad because they respond to being attacked. That is what lead me to my conclusion.
Again, if terrorists from Mexico were constantly firing rockets into the middle of San Diego and Tuscon, and the Mexican government was doing nothing to stop it, and a large portion of the Mexican population supported the bombings, what would WE do?
Hey folks, as I mentioned in the original post that I wanted to keep this somewhat narrow in discussion. I realize that this subject invokes strong feelings in many people and I didn't want this to regress into who started what and who is at fault for the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. This topic is specific to the current events taking place in the Gaza today and how they are a form of collective punishment. If someone wishes to create a thread as a broad based topic on this conflict or situation then by all means, feel free.
Back to the topic at hand...
I remember while still in high school that I had a wonderful history teacher and we covered the events of the holocaust and the Jewish ghetto's of Warsaw and Terezin. I recalled my teacher reminding us of the importance of history so that these kinds of things would never take place again.
While the world stood up and cheered at President Reagan calling upon Gorbachev to "Tear down this wall", we in the United States have substantially help fund the creation of a new wall that serves to divide and segregate Israeli's from terror attacks and serves to starve the Palestinians of an existence. This forced separation also serves to separate any chance of dialog or diplomacy that needs to take place, more now than ever before.
What I find most troubling is that when one reads an Israeli newspaper there is a great deal of discussion over the merits and effects that this wall of oppression has on both Israeli's and Palestinians. Yet here in America, it is a one sided conversation and as exampled by some of the responses, I am sure I shall be vilified.
In the meantime, I can only hope that the US will view this for what it really is.
Can't isolate the issues, cause and effect exists. Condemn Hamas and their continued attacks on Israel, while integrating into the Gaza population, and I'd be more interested in the discussion. I thought the posting comparing this to how we would respond if San Diego were under continuous attack was right on the money.
Hamas, which refuses to renounce violence and recognize Israel, vowed no let up in its fight against the Jewish state. Official Sami Abu Zuhri called on Egypt to reopen its own border with Gaza, which has mostly been closed since the June takeover, and warned of an "explosion" if the closure continued...
The number of rocket attacks fired from Gaza dropped off sharply on Sunday. Only four rockets and one mortar round were launched at Israel during the day, compared with more than 45 on Friday and Saturday, an Israeli army spokesman said.
In West Bank cities, where Abbas's Fatah holds sway, protesters carried candles to show solidarity with those in the coastal territory, chanting "God is with you Gaza."
Hey folks, as I mentioned in the original post that I wanted to keep this somewhat narrow in discussion. I realize that this subject invokes strong feelings in many people and I didn't want this to regress into who started what and who is at fault for the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. This topic is specific to the current events taking place in the Gaza today and how they are a form of collective punishment. If someone wishes to create a thread as a broad based topic on this conflict or situation then by all means, feel free.
Back to the topic at hand...
I remember while still in high school that I had a wonderful history teacher and we covered the events of the holocaust and the Jewish ghetto's of Warsaw and Terezin. I recalled my teacher reminding us of the importance of history so that these kinds of things would never take place again.
While the world stood up and cheered at President Reagan calling upon Gorbachev to "Tear down this wall", we in the United States have substantially help fund the creation of a new wall that serves to divide and segregate Israeli's from terror attacks and serves to starve the Palestinians of an existence. This forced separation also serves to separate any chance of dialog or diplomacy that needs to take place, more now than ever before.
What I find most troubling is that when one reads an Israeli newspaper there is a great deal of discussion over the merits and effects that this wall of oppression has on both Israeli's and Palestinians. Yet here in America, it is a one sided conversation and as exampled by some of the responses, I am sure I shall be vilified.
In the meantime, I can only hope that the US will view this for what it really is.
The Jews in the ghettos were under constant threat of UNPROVOKED murder. They could not leave, and not because their own people would not let them into their own countries. The Jews in the ghettos were not offered their own country with the freedom to do whatever they want with it. And if they were, I doubt they would have turned it down. The Jews in the ghettos were targets of extermination. If that is what is Israel's intent they would have done it 40 years ago. The Jews in the ghettos didn't have the option of "don't attack and you wont BE attacked." The two are apples and oranges, if you ask me.
The merit of the wall is that there has been a complete halt to the suicide bombings. The way it causes further "oppression" is that the Palestinians can no longer use suicide bombings as a form of civil disobedience.
I think it is sad that you feel you are being vilified. In America, nobody should be vilified for their beliefs. You have a right to your opinion, even if it is wrong.
Last edited by AnesthesiaMD; 01-25-2008 at 10:06 PM..
It's a war crime. I'd agree. I also thought it was a war crime when Sharon was bulldozing over Palestinian homes and olive groves and taking lands near the settlements for security purposes -- oh, and all those settlements. Most of those should have been removed. And that wall?
Can't isolate the issues, cause and effect exists. Condemn Hamas and their continued attacks on Israel, while integrating into the Gaza population, and I'd be more interested in the discussion. I thought the posting comparing this to how we would respond if San Diego were under continuous attack was right on the money.
Hamas, which refuses to renounce violence and recognize Israel, vowed no let up in its fight against the Jewish state.
The response from Hamas was that these rockets were in response to Israel's failure to recognize Hamas as the legitimate, democratically elected government.
This is what I mean about us being able to take this back 1500 years in a never ending cycle of violence.
In any case, is it justified for Israel to use collective punishment against people who did not attack Israel? I understand that Israel has a right to retaliate when it is attacked, but is it ok to attack an entire populace for acts of a few? Where do we draw the line of what we consider is legitimate response?
I understand that terrorist and militants will act like, well, terrorist, but I expect a different response from an ally that is as close as Israel to act like the enlightened society they claim to be.
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