Hmmm....
...Sarah Palin and Mitt Romney were both caught using public email services; Microsoft and Yahoo, to conduct official Governmental business. No outcry there.
Hilary on the other hand took secrecy to a new level by building and maintaining her own server that was housed in a family's home, and a home that was guarded by Secret Service, mind you, making it even more secure against physical attack or theft. The original server was its own backup, then it was later reconfigured to backup onto Google, then later again onto McAffie. There is nothing illegal about politicians using and maintaining their own servers for purposes of email. The Federal Government has guidelines outlining the usage and regulation of such servers, including how the server is built, on how the data/system is secured and on how the data is stored. As long as Clinton took "every effort" to secure and maintain the server in accordance to Federal guidelines, she will be in the clear.
Cybersecurity experts are also agreeing that Clinton's own email account may actually be even more secure than those of top U.S. officials because it was handled and maintained by only a few people. The ultimate irony here is that Russia has been implicated in hacking into Obama's email account and China claims to have been reading his emails all along. It took a Romanian hacker--possibly sympathetic with Libyan rebels, to hack into Blumenthal's email account and to distribute those emails, to bring to light that Clinton had the private email server to begin with. This is also where the allegations of "classified" information arise as it has been implicated by the GOP that these leaked emails aided the attack in Benghazi. With the investigation it was found that Clinton's official Department email was "empty" and contained no emails, or evidence of emails, relating to the Benghazi mission yet even if they had the fact remains that it was not her account that was hacked and those same correspondences would have likely still been sent and leaked had she been using her "official" email.
Another complication for Clinton: the server and domain are registered to a name that "does not exist" in any searchable context, yet, the server was obviously maintained by a very real human being. What is missing from the quagmire in this thread is that surely this person would have had access to Clinton's emails, which right there alone would be a breech of security and grounds for criminal prosecution unless this person just so happened to have more privilege than even Clinton as SOS.
This server is now in the hands of the FBI and if it can be hacked, then she is in trouble. If they find that it was ever vulnerable, if even briefly, she could be in trouble (politically so, not necessarily criminally). She also maintains that she never sent confidential information through her own server and whether she did nor not is not the case for legal action in and of itself. If it can be proven that she knowingly sent classified or other sensitive emails through her own server, she is [legally] in trouble. If she can prove, or at least show, that she was not aware of such classified information that she may or may not have sent, then she is in the clear.
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Originally Posted by WorkingMan86
Wow, truly amazes me how if this were your average joe they'd be in prison for decades faster than a new york minute yet because she has money, influence, being the wife of an ex president and being a woman she is very likely to get off scot free! There is no justice in this world! 
I sure wish I was rich, a politician and had friends in the highest of places, then I could steal loads of money from people and cover up information that got people killed and never have to worry about being caught! |
If by "average joe" you mean average joe Federal employee, then, well, maybe. It would all depend on where the buck stopped, who was the most expendable scapegoat, and how willing those in charge are of filling out the reams of paperwork necessary to make it all happen.
Now if you mean just a regular ol citizen, then of course. I mean, what would a regular joe be doing with potentially classified information anyways?
Also, your duality here is maddening in the sense that there are many like you out there in our society: on the one hand you wish for more justice against people like Clinton. On the other, you wish to have the power of "Clinton" yourself.
The real question here is whether or not Clinton knowingly used this server to actually hide anything illegal. Some are saying that a small handful of emails she had sent only became classified after the fact and one or two others are saying that at least of the emails was always classified and that Clinton knew it.
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Originally Posted by Juram
Except for all the emails that got deleted because she and her people decided that they were "personal" which one is only left to speculate on whether to take her claims at face value. I think its fairly obvious that she didnt want a paper trail that would come back to haunt her in her quest for the presidency but she stepped into it bigtime anyways.
This is a perfect example why we should insist that all public business gets done through public systems, this private email server bit is absolute horse****.
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While it is suspicious that 31K emails were deleted, that in and of itself is no proof that the emails contained classified Government information. All Clinton has said on the matter is that they were private. Private could mean that she is having an affair. Private could mean campaign strategy. Private could mean.... ...nothing malevolent. Clinton had correspondence with former CIA operative and Bush Admin. whistle-blower concerning the Bush Admin's misuse of "questionable" intelligence used to create policy and mission in Afghanistan and Iraq. It is possible that they also contained information intended to smear the Bush Admin, which could potentially be an embarrassment and liability for her campaign. She has also been accused of orchestrating a "spy ring", so perhaps the deleted emails were that? Both Bill and Hilary support and invest in "entities" such as big oil that typically do not go over well with Liberals. So there is potentially that. Hilary was also once a Young Republican, and only switched sides after she met Bill, so perhaps she still supports some Republican candidates and/or policy?
Or they could have just been emails about her grandmother's prized cupcake recipe. We will most likely never know.
But yes, you are absolutely correct here: those personal emails could very well be damaging to her own political career and not a threat to national security.
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Originally Posted by Retroit
If she goes to prison, Obama will give her a pardon.
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Naw. If she goes to prison it won't be anytime soon. It has been estimated that the entire contents of those emails, the server, and so on could take years to come out. Besides, she and her family are too wealthy. She could just buy her way into probation at most, at the least, she gets home arrest for a month.
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Originally Posted by jburress
For better or for worse, she's not going anywhere.
Anything incriminating was destroyed along time ago. It's just another show for the public.
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There is some real, legit, legal concerns here but of course it is for show. And if Hilary were not running for POTUS this would be back page news. If this is all that the GOP has on Hilary...
Of course she is not going anywhere. Anyone who thinks that other politicians, from both parties, do not have secret email accounts or other back-door channels of communications are fooling themselves. Hilary just got caught, and by a hacker none-the-less--which is what the scandal was originally about but seems to have gotten lost in the political quagmire.
Capital Hill will get loud, chests will be beat, but at the end of the day even her "enemies" are going to make sure that nothing too terrible happens to her because they know that what ever happens to her could also happen to them. Sometimes you got to save your "enemy" in order to protect your own behind.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
And yet liberals would still eagerly vote her in as president. I might be wishing Obama had a 3rd term if that happens. It has taken this long to get the emails so she obviously has something to hide.
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Yes, of course they will. Just like Conservatives would cast their vote for the Republican candidate if it were a Conservative in the midst of this same "email scandal". The main reason being; toeing the party line. The other reason being; you all know that if Clinton were a chickenhawk Republican you all would be saying something about Constitutional/individual rights to "personal email server". When "the other side" does it it is illegal. When "our side" does it is an individual right.
The bottom line is that no matter who did what people are still going to vote along party lines.
Doesn't matter though, Sanders is dominating the polls; blowing everyone else away in terms of sheer support.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
And Obama pretty much laid a nuclear bomb on everything that was good in America including disgracing our veterans by closing all the national parks and memorials out of spite during the government shutdown.
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The irony is that the Federal Government closes every time is snows more than 1" but less than 2". Heck, just the threat of snow can shut the Fed Gov down for a day or two. It makes me chuckle that the same institution that is capable of surviving some of the worst disasters imagined (in preperational protocol, mind you) is totally afraid of a little bit of snow. Then again, DC in general is full of weather wimps.
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Originally Posted by Dd714
It is basically the same crime that Petraeus was convicted for - unauthorized removal and retention of classified information (he was convicted but avoided jail time, although obviously his public life was ruined).
But we are talking about the Obama justice system - her chance of being charged for the federal crime are slim to none.
But, in my opinion she will not politically recover from this. In her previous campaigns Hillary has always started off as a strong candidate and sunk and just keeps on sinking in the polls until election day. Sometimes she was able to barely beat the downward spiral (her senate campaign), sometimes not (her last presidential campaign). Seems her downward spiral is beginning early.
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Uh, no, it is not. Petraeus gave confidential military information, including the names of covert operatives, to a women he was sleeping with. And how much prison time did he get?
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Originally Posted by El Nox
Fact check ... Petraeus crime was 'confidential' information. Her majesty had TS/SCI. Talk about apples and oranges.
El Nox
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Do you not believe the Petraeus had Top Secret/Sensitive Compartmented Information? Really? This guy was the Director of the CIA, a four-star General, among others. Heck, he was even elected to Director of CIA by a 100% positive vote. Not one person voted nay. This dude had security clearances far higher than Clinton for sure; perhaps even Obama. Yet, he still thought it was a good idea to pass along his black books to his mistress. I guess the sex was literally mind blowing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714
So you are saying it is worst for Hillary, that may be. One counter argument however (to play the devil's advocate to even my own thread) - Patraeus's conviction was actually a plea bargain down from the charge of actually releasing (to his mistress) confidential information.
There are other legal counter arguments of course that go beyond the scope of this thread. Still my point - Hillary very well probably committed a crime, she won't be charged, but politically it is very bad for her.
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He was likely encouraged to take the plea deal in order to quickly sweep the incident under the rug. The Clintons on the other hand have yet to realize this strategy. This could have been over and done with five months ago if Hilary had only dealt with it front and center but like all Clinton scandals she is dragging it out. (remember how Bill's presidency was referred as "drip, drip, drip"?)
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Originally Posted by Travelassie
As for another of the anointed ones, IMO Hillary needs to go jail but she will never see one day behind bars, her adoring fans, including the MSM will circle the wagons around her, will work hard at spinning her activities as she does, labeling them as part of a right-wing conspiracy. Her campaign minions even as we speak are turning it all into a nonevent. I hope I am wrong, but I remain cynical.
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Adoring fans... ...how cute.
Kind of funny how RomneyCare was a non-event to the GOP even though the GOP was bent over backwards in hopes of repealing ObamaCare
It is also kind of funny that "Conservatives" are now using every tactic and phrase that "Liberals" were once using during the Bush, Jr. Administration. You can say what goes around comes around but I say to find something original. Seriously, comments like this are direct rip-offs from what Liberals used to say.
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Originally Posted by lvoc
This is all silliness and irrational hope by the right wing. It goes no where.
And she is still the most likely person to be the next President.
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Yes, irrational hype by the right-wing. Irrational hope, on the other hand, not so much. Smear campaigning aside, Hilary does face the potential charge of sharing classified information, or for making such information potentially accessible (through hacking), which are very real legal concerns. Even if she where not a Clinton, and not running for POTUS, and this was back-page news, the potential charges against her are legit matters of legal concern. Whether she does time in prison or not will remain to be seen, if she is convicted.
A year ago I would have agreed that she would be on the Dem ticket, now, it is looking more like it is going to be Sanders day after day. The GOP is likely hoping that it is Sanders who makes it into the big event, that way they can play against his Socialists ideals. If Hilary makes it onto the ticket, and it will all depend on this current investigation, her chances of winning are going to be slim. I have a feeling that many of those who support Sanders will not vote for Clinton just like many of these same people did not vote for Obama the second time. That does not mean they voted for, or will vote for, a Republican but in that they either chose to stay home or vote 3rd Party, and will more likely do so again.
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Originally Posted by rumline
The thing about e-mail is that even if you delete your own copy and your server's copy, that e-mail additionally lives in every recipient's computer and server(s), backup tapes, etc. They don't have to have Hillary's server to prove that she received classified data (and didn't report or handle it properly) but if they examine her server and things she sent are no longer there, that's how we get to obstruction of justice charges as well.
I hope the forensicists are allowed to do their jobs and find if classified data was ever on her servers, and not just to check that Clinton sufficiently wiped the hard drives.
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When you delete something, or toss it into the trash, you are only allowing those blocks of memory to overwritten with new data. And until that time, even though the item had been deleted or trashed, it still may exists on the hard drive in whole or in part until it is overwritten. Even if the drive has been wiped, even if numerous times, latent information will remain... ...including the parts about the drive having been wiped. That is why "smart people" completely destroy old drives and not simply erase them. If this server was only used for email, and she simply deleted the emails, they will likely remain retrievable in whole or in part unless specific steps were taking to overwrite the blocks of space the old emails resided in with 1s and 0s, preferably numerous times (that is, with each wipe a new "layer" of 1s and 0s would by laid. The more the better. Seven passes is considered good enough by the DoD, although some erroneously quote the number at three. Everyone else concerned with security goes for 35). To my knowledge she has simply said that she deleted the emails, not wiped the folder.
Doesn't matter, computer forensics can find evidence of pretty much anything on a drive that is still in operational order. When you overlay the blocks formally occupied with the information you now want gone, all you are doing is helping to ensure that the information is completely unretrievable. However, information about that information could exist elsewhere, such as in a directory, on a router, and in a few other places such as on a recipients drive.
And to add, depending the mechanics of the particular drive, the read/write heads, the magnetism, and so on, it could be possible that the emails were/are not completely overridden, even with numerous "wipes". It may be possible to remove the physical disk and read the disk using specialized equipment, which is likely what the FBI is going to do with her drive[s].
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