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Old 08-13-2015, 11:00 AM
 
Location: North America
14,210 posts, read 10,114,529 times
Reputation: 5547

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Quote:
Originally Posted by earthlyfather View Post
Nope, it is a selfish and immature choice, that completely disregards personal responsibility. Incredible that you can amorally defend 'terminating' a child's life in the name of fiscal responsibility.

There is quite a bit of protein and other nutrients still remaining in tired and old, nearing end of life adult bodies. Why not go the solyent green route. As the arbiter of what makes financial 'sense' you can choose when people are nearing nearing end of life, and require that they be fiscally responsible. Maybe you could start Planned Elder Fiscal Responsibility, to provide complete circle of life services(), with PP.

All in the name of science, fiscal responsibility, and matriarchal guidance of the masses.

I can see the slogan now. From a blob of cells to a bag of bones. Yes, indeed.
No sorry it's not and it doesn't. Personal responsibility is knowing you are not in the position to take care of a child and take the appropriate measure to make sure that doesn't happen. As I said before, you people just don't like the method that they use in order to do so.

 
Old 08-13-2015, 11:05 AM
 
40,143 posts, read 24,369,621 times
Reputation: 12630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veneficus View Post
Ok, I'll ask you.

My Aunt Tilly is sick and needs medicine, are you Ok with me kicking your door down, beating your face in, and taking your money to pay for her medicine?
So you are conflating Aunt Tilly and her healthcare with pregnancy and childbirth? I'm not following your reasoning. On the one hand, you are arguing that women should be compelled to go through pregnancy rather than abortion, despite their inability to afford pregnancy, despite their inability to cover the hospital costs, despite their inability to afford raising a child, putting them at some real risks, and somehow when pointing that out, you bring up your Aunt Tilly, with no reference to Aunt Tilly's financial situation, to rebut that women who are responsible and are paying their own way, might consider the costs of an unwanted child when they find themselves pregnant?
 
Old 08-13-2015, 11:05 AM
 
Location: North America
14,210 posts, read 10,114,529 times
Reputation: 5547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winning Guy View Post
So for clarity...

Your personal belief is that it's not so much a matter of the baby being a live being. It's more about extraordinary (beyond regular baby care) dependency on others in order to survive?

So it doesn't matter if the baby is a formed human being and is pretty much alive.

So, would you would have been okay with aborting this baby because of the amount of effort required to get the baby non-dependent?
No, my personal belief is it's not for me to say why a woman might feel the need for an abortion at those late stages. It's not something that someone who has gone through nearly 2/3 of her pregnancy is going to take lightly.
 
Old 08-13-2015, 11:09 AM
 
10,102 posts, read 6,326,478 times
Reputation: 8423
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
Planned Parenthood would have considered this little one as "not viable" and harvested his organs. This story reveals why they don't want mothers to have sonograms before they abort their children.

Born at 23 weeks, this micropreemie is sharing the truth about abortion - Jeannie-ology | Jeannie-ology

Oh, I dunno. Planned Parenthood was the only place that would give my friend a sonogram when her home pregnancy test was positive. Her regular physician said it was too early, but she was so excited, she just had to know. She now has a seven month old little boy. And I have another friend who had a micro preemie, I think he was short of 26 weeks. He's three now, it's been a rough road, but it appears that the kid is going to be pretty darn healthy. That pregnancy was confirmed at Planned Parenthood too. All I'm saying is, Planned Parenthood isn't just about abortion. Believe me, I think they should be investigated. Anybody that did anything illegal should be fired and have charges against them. I also don't think that they need government money anymore now that they accept Medicaid. But, all the hoopla and hysteria against them is rather silly in my opinion.
 
Old 08-13-2015, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Stasis
15,837 posts, read 10,045,202 times
Reputation: 8548
Quote:
Originally Posted by earthlyfather View Post
Nope, it is a selfish and immature choice, that completely disregards personal responsibility. Incredible that you can amorally defend 'terminating' a child's life in the name of fiscal responsibility.[/i]
At what week of gestation does it become wrong and "'terminating' a child's life" in your eyes?
 
Old 08-13-2015, 11:45 AM
 
16,284 posts, read 9,119,974 times
Reputation: 6561
Quote:
Originally Posted by katzpaw View Post
At what week of gestation does it become wrong and "'terminating' a child's life" in your eyes?
for me its not a week. its a concept.

Protect the innocent.

If a woman is pregnant because she has been harmed then she is an innocent that deserves protection.

if however the pregnancy is not the result of harm, then the baby is the innocent and deserves protection

if at some point the baby becomes a danger to the womans life, then again the woman becomes the innocent in need of protection.


At the end of the day all the varibles of harm result in a micro-fraction of the total number of abortions that are done every year.

I will be happy to delay discussion of that handful of abortions when we can come to the conclusion that an abortion for mere convenience...which amounts to nearly a million abortions a year.... should not happen.
 
Old 08-13-2015, 11:53 AM
 
40,143 posts, read 24,369,621 times
Reputation: 12630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
for me its not a week. its a concept.

Protect the innocent.

If a woman is pregnant because she has been harmed then she is an innocent that deserves protection.

if however the pregnancy is not the result of harm, then the baby is the innocent and deserves protection

if at some point the baby becomes a danger to the womans life, then again the woman becomes the innocent in need of protection.


At the end of the day all the varibles of harm result in a micro-fraction of the total number of abortions that are done every year.

I will be happy to delay discussion of that handful of abortions when we can come to the conclusion that an abortion for mere convenience...which amounts to nearly a million abortions a year.... should not happen.
What you are referring to as "mere convenience" is much more to the woman involved. If she thinks she could lose her job, that's more than a "mere convenience". If she's in an abusive relationship, and thinks she could be beaten or even killed, that's more than a "mere convenience. If she's already raising children and fears they could go hungry or that she couldn't afford to buy them shoes if she went through with the pregnancy, that's more than a "mere convenience". If she's a college student and she's worried that she may have to drop out of college (and mind you, statistically, as a single mother, she's unlikely to go back and graduate), that's more than a "mere convenience". These women are thinking about their lives, and the fact that you dismiss their lives so cavalierly, is all the more reason that they should be thinking about their lives. If they don't, who will?
 
Old 08-13-2015, 12:07 PM
 
Location: North America
14,210 posts, read 10,114,529 times
Reputation: 5547
Quote:
Originally Posted by elan View Post
Oh, I dunno. Planned Parenthood was the only place that would give my friend a sonogram when her home pregnancy test was positive. Her regular physician said it was too early, but she was so excited, she just had to know. She now has a seven month old little boy. And I have another friend who had a micro preemie, I think he was short of 26 weeks. He's three now, it's been a rough road, but it appears that the kid is going to be pretty darn healthy. That pregnancy was confirmed at Planned Parenthood too. All I'm saying is, Planned Parenthood isn't just about abortion. Believe me, I think they should be investigated. Anybody that did anything illegal should be fired and have charges against them. I also don't think that they need government money anymore now that they accept Medicaid. But, all the hoopla and hysteria against them is rather silly in my opinion.
A lot of the money they get comes from Medicaid. They don't get a blank check that says "Moneiz".
 
Old 08-13-2015, 12:13 PM
 
1,603 posts, read 891,774 times
Reputation: 1168
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~HecateWhisperCat~ View Post
A lot of the money they get comes from Medicaid. They don't get a blank check that says "Moneiz".
There is a reason Medicaid is a major fraud magnet.

It really is a blank check system.

I can yank any NPI from the NPPES, whip up a w-9 and start billing to my hearts content.

Medicaid pays up front, then look at claims...eventually.
 
Old 08-13-2015, 12:19 PM
 
16,284 posts, read 9,119,974 times
Reputation: 6561
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
What you are referring to as "mere convenience" is much more to the woman involved. If she thinks she could lose her job, that's more than a "mere convenience". If she's in an abusive relationship, and thinks she could be beaten or even killed, that's more than a "mere convenience. If she's already raising children and fears they could go hungry or that she couldn't afford to buy them shoes if she went through with the pregnancy, that's more than a "mere convenience". If she's a college student and she's worried that she may have to drop out of college (and mind you, statistically, as a single mother, she's unlikely to go back and graduate), that's more than a "mere convenience". These women are thinking about their lives, and the fact that you dismiss their lives so cavalierly, is all the more reason that they should be thinking about their lives. If they don't, who will?

sorry. innocence is innocence. where a woman has been harmed, she is an innocent who deservers protection.

where a woman has not been harmed but is pregnant the child is the innocent. period.

Don't we have laws against women losing their jobs for being pregnant? don't we have laws against abuse?

Every single state has more than enough resource to insure women and children are fed. choices lead to a wide assortment of terrible outcomes. only getting pregnant gives us this special out for women.

I dismiss nothing cavalierly. don't insult me. I seek to protect the innocent. There is nothing cavalier about protecting the innocent.

I don't want to speak for you but you surely seem to suggest that innocence is a secondary consideration to going to college. that is not a valid standard for me. innocence always comes first.


the vast majorty of the "thinking about their lives" as you put it, occurs AFTER having had unprotected sex. we fix this equasion by correcting the behavior beforehand.
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