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Old 08-13-2015, 10:56 PM
 
Location: SoFlo
783 posts, read 537,566 times
Reputation: 1492

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
I don't see any reason why people can't have rational, civil discussions of this issue. And it's important to do so, because we both need to see that the other person's perspective is valid. Your views are perfectly valid. I fully understand the position that innocence should be a standard. And I think you understand that my position in the context of your argument is that the woman is innocent, too. She didn't intend to get pregnant. And if her birth control failed, that doesn't make it her fault. She's still innocent, as innocent as the woman who was raped, or who was coerced by her incestuous relatives. We all are human, and we all have a sex drive. To engage in sex, IMO, is not a sin. So the woman is an innocent. And there is no doubt that an unplanned pregnancy can put many women at risk. Physically, emotionally, financially. To decry their right to consider the risks, and to make the decision that addresses the risks in the best way for her, to me that's the real sin. Women merit our respect as competent, moral, intelligent equals who are entitled to make decisions regarding their lives and bodies.
i agree sex is not a sin, but it does HAVE RISKS. risk of pregnancy, std, etc. i completely disagree with your use of the term innocence in describing the women women who get pregnant through consensual sex. as you said in previous posts, women are intelligent beings. then of course they understand the risk of pregnancy and failure of birth control rates. so it should be no surprise if they get pregnant. if they are that worried, double down on birth control, which might just help protect against some std's too. women need to take full responsibility for sexual and reproductive choices, pregnancy is very rarely soemthing that just innocently happens to a woman, she should always be aware of the risk of pregnancy even when using birth control. this is the main problem today, peope just dont want to deal with the negative consequences of the choices they make.

 
Old 08-13-2015, 11:05 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,554,726 times
Reputation: 7830
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJJersey View Post
What a great story! I am so glad Trevor is going home. Abortion should be illegal after 20 weeks. This story shows those babies are viable.
It should still be legal and should be the decision for a woman to make. Only a very small percentage of abortions happen after this point and none of them are because the woman no longer wants to give birth to a baby.
 
Old 08-13-2015, 11:30 PM
 
Location: Stasis
15,837 posts, read 10,049,494 times
Reputation: 8548
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
It should still be legal and should be the decision for a woman to make. Only a very small percentage of abortions happen after this point and none of them are because the woman no longer wants to give birth to a baby.
Less than 1% of abortions happen after 20 weeks and most are due to mother's health issues or fetal abnormalities (incl. Down's).
 
Old 08-13-2015, 11:45 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,554,726 times
Reputation: 7830
Quote:
Originally Posted by katzpaw View Post
Less than 1% of abortions happen after 20 weeks and most are due to mother's health issues or fetal abnormalities (incl. Down's).
Apparently pro-lifers would rather the mother die or a baby be forced to be born with abnormalities.
 
Old 08-14-2015, 12:09 AM
 
624 posts, read 300,445 times
Reputation: 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Apparently pro-lifers would rather the mother die or a baby be forced to be born with abnormalities.
It's very rare that you'll find a pro-lifer that would be against abortion if the mother's life is in danger.

But you already knew this. You just like to lie.
 
Old 08-14-2015, 12:10 AM
 
624 posts, read 300,445 times
Reputation: 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by katzpaw View Post
Less than 1% of abortions happen after 20 weeks and most are due to mother's health issues or fetal abnormalities (incl. Down's).
So would you support a ban or abortions after 20 weeks unless the mother's life is in danger or the baby would be severely disabled?
 
Old 08-14-2015, 12:12 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,554,726 times
Reputation: 7830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winning Guy View Post
It's very rare that you'll find a pro-lifer that would be against abortion if the mother's life is in danger.

But you already knew this. You just like to lie.
And yet here we have threads about how abortions should be banned, especially after 20 weeks when the facts show that women who are having abortions at that point aren't doing it because they just don't want to give birth to a baby.

This is no lie, this is the fact that the "pro-life" anti-choice crowd keeps crowing.
 
Old 08-14-2015, 01:27 AM
 
Location: Stasis
15,837 posts, read 10,049,494 times
Reputation: 8548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winning Guy View Post
So would you support a ban or abortions after 20 weeks unless the mother's life is in danger or the baby would be severely disabled?
No, no ban. I'd prefer if women didn't have abortions, esp. late term abortions, but I son't judge the women I've known who've made the tough decision.

It varies by country, but generally socialized-medicine European countries don't allow abortion past the 1st trimester. It's not so much a moral/murder issue but a recognition that babies are good for society... and they have better assistance programs for mothers and children.

Canada has no legal cut-off but doctors and hospitals don't do "on demand" abortions after 24 weeks. Amniocentesis/Downs results come in around week 20 and hospital staff will recommend an abortion if the results show Downs.
 
Old 08-14-2015, 01:29 AM
 
Location: Illinois
4,754 posts, read 4,331,690 times
Reputation: 12914
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vejadu View Post
A friend of ours had a preemie at 25 weeks, and though he's had medical issues, he's a happy little baby boy.

The more advances there are in medical science, the earlier we're going to be able to save premature babies.
Yes, but no one seems to be considering whether or not we should.

Just because something is scientifically achievable doesn't mean it should be done. Didn't anyone pay attention to Jurassic Park?
 
Old 08-14-2015, 01:29 AM
 
10,117 posts, read 6,332,855 times
Reputation: 8427
To whoever left me the reputation comment: "Your friend needs to stop using PP for her "need to know" whims. Pee sticks also confirm pregnancies and her doc could have taken blood to confirm as well."

You missed the point, she wanted a confirmation and her, now former, doctor wanted to wait. I don't think I'd be to comfortable telling someone who was trying to get pregnant that their wanting to know is a whim, but oh well.
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