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If you don't want a child but still want to sleep around, get a vasectomy. Take responsibility, stop looking for a way out and look at what sexual intercourse is. Its about more then just you getting off.
And how do you feel about the argument that women who want to have sex but never want pregnancy or children should just get their reproductive capabilities permanently disabled through hysterectomy?
A woman's right to have an abortion is based on her right to privacy, it's her body, so it is her right to choose to have this medical procedure. If men could get pregnant they could have an abortion. There is no fairness in pregnancy, and there never will be. This is a case where biology dictates your terms, and both genders just have to deal with it.
The idea of a "financial abortion" somehow being a fair equivalent is false. Terminating a pregnancy does not compare to having your children living while someone else pays for them. Society cannot tolerate fathers abandoning responsibility for their off spring simply because the woman refused to have an abortion.
The woman consented to risk pregnancy and delivery when she had a vaginal sex. Therefore, allowing someone else to share the decision of whether she can have an abortion doesn't violate her bodily autonomy. She already contested to his vote.
Also, please tell me who pays for abortion? In many cases, it is the tax payers. Also, the woman's employer needs to grant her a paid leave for her abortion. Sorry, the equivalency is still similar as people who have no fault are still paying for something that is not their decision.
Last edited by YesMeAgain; 08-27-2015 at 04:41 PM..
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The point is that the right to an abortion is not based on the right to not be pregnant, its based on rights over one's own body. It's simple biology, any man who gets pregnant has the same right to the medical procedure of abortion under the current conditions where it is legal. Pregnancy unfairly affects women. Walking away from a pregnancy with zero consequences is not equal to having an abortion, it's generally safe, but is a still a surgical procedure that can have serious negative consequences. A woman can never just walk away because it's her body that is affected. There is no fairness in pregnancy, it's biological and cannot be legislated to fairness.
You are basically holding the opinion that, in some cases, the law cannot be fair. Can you give me examples about laws (laws, not a personal actions) that are unfair against women and you still support their existence?
Last edited by Gungnir; 08-27-2015 at 04:23 PM..
Reason: Correcting quotation
The reality is that biology determines what your choices are, no one ever said life was fair. I've never met a woman who wouldn't chose to have the man carry the baby instead of her, but that isn't the way it works. Most women do not find it fair that they have the sole responsibility to carry a child, and everything that entails. It's her body, that makes it her choice to carry a pregnancy to term, or not.
If a man does not wish to be responsible for a child, he must abstain from sex. That is his only option. If a woman becomes pregnant she can chose an abortion because it's her body. I realize that's not fair, but life is not fair for women either when it comes to pregnancy. Allowing men to walk away from children they fathered is far to destructive to children, and to our society. Living children, planned for, or not are entitled to the support of both parents. Law always has to balance individual freedoms with the best needs of society.
No sexually active man should be surprised if he gets that call. People of both genders know what their options are, if one can't handle the particular set of options their gender allows them, they can avoid sex.
You cannot refer the issue to biology. How about using the the biology card to impose fetal rights on the woman? (i.e., she has to be responsible not to make any action that may contribute to deformed or unhealthy baby or maybe she has to breastfeed the baby because it is better for his or her health). If that happens, protests would never stop. Rejecting the previous argument is clear indication that it is about the child's interest unless the woman feel inconvenienced. Also, the same argument can be said if abortion is prohibited, "it is a biology that you cannot control your body after having sex." The feminist irrationality here is to legally override biology when it is stands against women and ask men to adapt when it works to their favor.
Cases like a 12 year old boy statutory rape, fraud, and used condom pregnancies can be discussed elsewhere. I am discussing consensual sex between willing partners who know exactly what they are doing.
Like it, or not a man cannot force a woman to have an abortion, and he can be required to pay child support if proven to be the father. That's the law, and that's reality, men go into sex knowing this, it's not some great surprise. Child support laws had to be created because men were walking away from their children, and this was a negative for the child, and for society. Whether by obligation, or choice parents must support their children.
I know full well what pro lifers say to women, but abortion is legal, and women have the right to this medical procedure with limitations because after a point the child rights take over. Men do not have this choice because their body does not get pregnant. Pregnancy is not fair, one is at the mercy of their biology. Most men accept that life isn't fair, and it will suck if an accidental pregnancy happens to them, but the answer is not to give every man the right to abandon all responsibility for any children they might father.
I know plenty of women who are vehemently opposed to abortion, they would never have one. They still have sex, but are very careful about birth control. They understand that if something happened, and they got pregnant they would be having the child. Adults accept reality rather than whining about how they should have rights to abandon the children they parented.
If a man doesn't want to ever risk a pregnancy, he never needs to have sex. A responsible man who choses to have sex will practice excellent birth control, but if a mistake happened they would accept the consequences, and understand they cannot force a women to have an abortion, physically, or psychologically by threatening full, and legal abandonment.
A desire to have sex is actually bodily autonomy, so taxing a man for practicing choices about their bodies is absurd as it really restricts his freedom and privacy. As long as women should have no barrier to avoid parenthood even with unprotected sex, so should men. If you disagree with this, then ask women to protect themselves and get a female condom. Otherwise, they lose control as soon as conception occur, just as men do.
The same arguments that you use can be also used: women should be forced to pregnancy even if it violates their bodily autonomy. That's the law, and that's reality, women go into sex knowing this, it's not some great surprise.
Also, since you realize what pro-lifers say, then you realize your hypocrisy when using arguments that you reject in the first place.
Trying to use the fact that many women are pro-lifers is irrelevant. What if the man was a pro-lifer and the woman knew this in advance? Does that give him the right to block aboriton? No? Then being a pro-life is no excuse for women to force men into fatherhood.
Regarding the last paragraph, it works much better for the case of women because their birth control methods are more effective.
Legally, or not the child is LIVING. At any time the father can decide to make a connection. A woman can never reverse an abortion. A financial abortion does not equalize the situation. It's absurd to pretend that having a child living while someone else pays for it is a fair equivalent to terminating a pregnancy. Again, women have the right to abortions because they bear the unfair burden of pregnancy, and have rights over their own bodies. There is no way to make pregnancy fair.
There is a way, it is called financial abortion. It is already applicable in the Netherlands and Denmark. What is not fair is the law itself, yet it was customized to be like that. Biology is almost irrelevant.
Last edited by Gungnir; 08-27-2015 at 04:21 PM..
Reason: Corrected quotation
the man that doesn't want to support a child needs to make sure he doesn't make one. most of these guys are too interested in self gratification to bother to use BC they prefer to let the woman worry about that. this is how they get their ass in a sling. they need to take care of themselves before they engage.
Three options are available to men to statistically avoid unwanted pregnancy.
Don't have vaginal sex with women.
Insist on using condoms. (12% failure rate)
Get a vasectomy.
How many options women have is completely irrelevant, but if you insist that it is then you get yourself in a trouble as women also have the same options. I can see now that abortion is a moot point.
Telling a man “You chose not to use condom or have a vasectomy,” which is the most common defense in this debate never means that a man gave up his full independent choice on his wallet by not doing so, what if a woman chose not to use female condom, morning-after pill or IUD, does this mean she gave up her choice on abortion? Abortion, in fact, is not about the odds of contraception failure. It is about a choice after sex which, somehow, implicitly made by men during sex, but women get surprised why they get pregnant and still consider it an obsession not to get a chance.
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