Would you support a child support opt-out for men *if* women promised to get an abortion and changed their minds later?

[Ivorytickler]

I voted no because once the child is here the child must be cared for. It takes two to make a child so two should be held responsible for said child. The child is innocent in the deal and does not deserve to be punished. The adults who made the baby can suck it up and care for the child they conceived.

Seriously. If you don't want to become a parent get sterilized or don't have sex.

[Futurist110]

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

I voted no because once the child is here the child must be cared for. It takes two to make a child so two should be held responsible for said child. The child is innocent in the deal and does not deserve to be punished. The adults who made the baby can suck it up and care for the child they conceived.

So, do you likewise support forcing sperm donors to pay child support and to make anonymous sperm donation illegal?

Seriously. If you don't want to become a parent get sterilized

Sterilization can and sometimes does fail.

or don't have sex.

Pro-lifers can tell the same thing to women who never want to be forced to carry an unplanned pregnancy to term, though.

[Futurist110]

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

I voted no because once the child is here the child must be cared for. It takes two to make a child so two should be held responsible for said child. The child is innocent in the deal and does not deserve to be punished. The adults who made the baby can suck it up and care for the child they conceived.

Seriously. If you don't want to become a parent get sterilized or don't have sex.

Also, though, I would like to point out that causing someone to exist is a gift rather than a harm and that having consensual sex certainly isn't negligent or illegal. Indeed, if I will donate a kidney and save some poor kid's life, then should I be expected to financially support this poor kid if the alternative is having the taxpayers support this poor kid? After all, I am the one who is responsible for this poor kid's continued existence!

[Futurist110]

Originally Posted by hothulamaui

you assume women have a lower sex drive so it is easier for them to not have sex than the man, women don't necessarily have a lower sex drive than men. sex drive is individual. plenty of men with low sex drive. you assume too much for your arguments.

OK; fair enough, I suppose.

again with the assumptions, just because a woman has an abortion and or thinks it is nothing but a clump of cells does not mean it is an easy thing for her to do. you assume too much that is not based on fact at all.

It is easy for her if she lives in an area with abortion access, though. Also, if one completely removes emotions from one's decision-making process, then getting an abortion should be no worse than killing a sentient insect.

you want to boil down intimate relationships with a written contract. I doubt that would go over well nr would most people be interested in that.

I didn't say that everyone has to be interested in such a written contract, now did I?

you make stereotypical remarks about women, like the low sex drive and they don't think abortion is a big deal.

The sex drive? Yes. The abortion part? It depends, I suppose.

you seem to want to just argue you are inept at making sure you don't get anyone pregnant that won't have an abortion so you would have to pay child support. as it has been pointed out to you. man up take care of yourself. no one cares if you have to pay for a child you created even if you didn't want one.

Oh, don't worry! After all, I myself certainly plan to get surgically castrated after I will earn the necessary $10,000 for this and for the sperm freezing and hormone replacement therapy which I will want!

[Futurist110]

Originally Posted by detshen

This thread turned into the same arguments being posted over and over again a long time ago. I, and others have already responded to every argument being made in these new sets of posts. Nothing new is going to come out of this debate, and I'm not going to keep going in circles. People are simply going to have to accept to disagree. A financial abortion is some people's idea of equality, but that is highly subjective. It does not create an ACTUAL equality, and it does create a whole host of other issues. Equality is not possible in pregnancy. Pregnancy is not fair, or equal to either gender, it's not like it's all rights, sunshine and roses for a woman. I'm reposting my last post, as it sums up why I, and the vast majority of Americans would not support this.

Frankly, I've thought this issue over, and I have come to the conclusion that I have been arguing my own position on this issue from the wrong perspective. Rather, I should argue my own position on this issue like this:

1. Causing someone to exist is a gift rather than a harm.

2. Having consensual sex certainly isn't negligent or illegal.

3. Most of the taxpayers do not consider either surgical castration or abstaining from penis-in-vagina sex for the rest of one's life to be very appealing.

Thus, the conclusion from all of this appears to be that male-bodied people should at least have a unilateral opt-out from paying child support if their vasectomies or Vasalgel injections will fail and if their female-bodied people will promise in writing to get an abortion in the event of an unplanned pregnancy only to lie or to change their minds in regards to this later on.