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Old 08-16-2015, 12:27 AM
 
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The idea that the terrorists trembled in fear when Reagan took office and so that's why they released the hostages?

Reagan later gave them $8,000,000,000. That kind of shows that the release was part of a deal and not because they trembled in fear. There were also several terrorist attacks on Reagan's watch which kind of blows the terrorists afraid of Reagan theory wide open.

And yet I never see the left pushing back against this or challenging it
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Old 08-16-2015, 12:31 AM
 
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I personally feel the hostages were released during Reagan's first term only because the Iranians were being stubborn with Carter and they didn't want to release them while he was in office. In effect, they had a huge influence on our election that year because so many people were upset about that crisis which by today's standards wouldn't even garner much political backlash.

I think Reagan's two terms had a lot of "action" per se. I'm not a liberal or Democrat but I don't see Reagan as any sort of conservative god either. He had his issues as a president. He raised our national debt and st a trend with big spending IMO. He also created the terrorist that are currently terrorizing us today from the middle east. But I also feel tat he was a man of his times and that he could not have possibly known how everything would work out. I don't view him as all that negative, but I don't really have that much of a negative view of any president. I think they have all done the best they could do.
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Old 08-16-2015, 12:58 AM
 
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actually carter created the terrorists we see today. it was during his watch that the iranians took over our embassy, and he engaged in diplomatic channels rather than military channels to get them back. and the reason the iranians took over our embassy is because carter let the deposed shah of iran into our country for medical treatment, which thee ayatollahs objected to, and they demanded that the shah be returned to iran for trial, and carter refused. but also remember that the shah was deposed because carter refused to back him when the revolution started.

right or wrong it carter that ticked off the iranians, and it was during carters watch that terrorism grew and became a threat.

true there were terrorist attacks during reagans watch and beyond, but it really started in earnest under carter.
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Old 08-16-2015, 02:11 AM
 
Location: NW Nevada
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Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
actually carter created the terrorists we see today. it was during his watch that the iranians took over our embassy, and he engaged in diplomatic channels rather than military channels to get them back. and the reason the iranians took over our embassy is because carter let the deposed shah of iran into our country for medical treatment, which thee ayatollahs objected to, and they demanded that the shah be returned to iran for trial, and carter refused. but also remember that the shah was deposed because carter refused to back him when the revolution started.

right or wrong it carter that ticked off the iranians, and it was during carters watch that terrorism grew and became a threat.

true there were terrorist attacks during reagans watch and beyond, but it really started in earnest under carter.
Do remember, that Carter did try a military option with Iran. That mission has to go down as one of the , single, worst debacles in our military history. Under equipped (woefully) undermanned and under planned. I can just picture some fat reared general, puffing on a cigar, saying "If the Israelis could pull off Entebe, WE can do this, with less". We did it, alright. Got a bunch of good men end and lost a couple helicopters, then got to see the film , our media , joyfully showed, of our soldiers naked bodies drug through the streets of Tehran.
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Old 08-16-2015, 02:15 AM
 
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LOL.

"Terrorists" were not an issue in Reagan's day. It was still communism and the cold war. Terrorists/terrorism was invented by the Clinton administration as the the replacement bogeyman after the fall of the Soviet Union. The Bush administration further refined it to a fine art after 9/11 and Obama has taken full advantage of it.
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Old 08-16-2015, 02:21 AM
 
45,546 posts, read 18,055,737 times
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Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
Do remember, that Carter did try a military option with Iran. That mission has to go down as one of the , single, worst debacles in our military history. Under equipped (woefully) undermanned and under planned. I can just picture some fat reared general, puffing on a cigar, saying "If the Israelis could pull off Entebe, WE can do this, with less". We did it, alright. Got a bunch of good men end and lost a couple helicopters, then got to see the film , our media , joyfully showed, of our soldiers naked bodies drug through the streets of Tehran.
Hardly. It's barely remembered now. What people don't remember is that Carter kept us from going to war with Iran and eventually all the hostages were returned unharmed. No loss of life. Given what has happened since, in the middle east, it's probably one of the finest military decisions made.

If you want to talk about military debacles, then go look at the Tet Offensive or one of the many incidents that have taken place in Iraq and Afghanistan since 2001. The loss of life over nothing is simply horrendous.
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Old 08-16-2015, 02:23 AM
 
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Terrorists and dictators were lavishly funded and armed (see Iraq, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Iran, El Salvador, Afghanistan) by the US during the Reagan years. Maybe Americans confused their giddiness with nervousness.
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Old 08-16-2015, 02:24 AM
 
Location: NW Nevada
14,275 posts, read 11,671,502 times
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Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
LOL.

"Terrorists" were not an issue in Reagan's day. It was still communism and the cold war. Terrorists/terrorism was invented by the Clinton administration as the the replacement bogeyman after the fall of the Soviet Union. The Bush administration further refined it to a fine art after 9/11 and Obama has taken full advantage of it.
Oh, terrorism reared its head , under Reagan. 200 Marines in Beirut. Then the German nightclub bombing. However, Quadaffi took all the credit for that, played the "paper tiger" card, drew the "line of death" in the Gulf of Sidra, then, the US Navy came along, snorted tbat line, and poof, terrorist attacks stopped.

Yea, the Navy got to have some fun with ol' Quackdaffy.
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Old 08-16-2015, 02:32 AM
 
45,546 posts, read 18,055,737 times
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Originally Posted by mmmjv View Post
The idea that the terrorists trembled in fear when Reagan took office and so that's why they released the hostages?

Reagan later gave them $8,000,000,000. That kind of shows that the release was part of a deal and not because they trembled in fear. There were also several terrorist attacks on Reagan's watch which kind of blows the terrorists afraid of Reagan theory wide open.

And yet I never see the left pushing back against this or challenging it
Hmm. I suppose whether that was "terrorism" is in the eyes of the beholder. The students who took over the American Embassy has the full support of the revolutionary Iranian government. Terrorists are normally associated with those opposed to the status quo.

The people of Iran overthrew a brutal dictatorship, The Shah, (basically another Saddam Hussein) who had subjugated the common population for decades all with the support of the USA. They replaced that system with another that is unfriendly to the USA and that is where all the issues have come from ever since.

Tactically the hostage taking was good for the new Iranian government. Strategically not so much.
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Old 08-16-2015, 02:33 AM
 
Location: Somewhere below Mason/Dixon
6,527 posts, read 7,483,594 times
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Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
Do remember, that Carter did try a military option with Iran. That mission has to go down as one of the , single, worst debacles in our military history. Under equipped (woefully) undermanned and under planned. I can just picture some fat reared general, puffing on a cigar, saying "If the Israelis could pull off Entebe, WE can do this, with less". We did it, alright. Got a bunch of good men end and lost a couple helicopters, then got to see the film , our media , joyfully showed, of our soldiers naked bodies drug through the streets of Tehran.

I don't blame that just on Carter. No doubt the Pentagon planners are more responsible than was Carter, but as they say "the buck stops here" so Carter did the right thing and took responsibility for it. What I do blame him for however is not getting to work planning another mission, he should never have let those terrorist win.

As far as Regan goes I do believe the Iranians feared him and that is why the hostages were released. I was young when that was going on, but Ill never forget seeing those people get off that plane on TV as Reagan took office. I have always admired President Reagan, he supported an American foreign policy based on strength and patriotism. The world knew when he was President what would happen if you messed with the United States. I think the Iranians knew the bombs would be raining from the sky if those people were not let go. Reagan knew your enemies needed to fear you, and he also applied this to the Soviet (evil empire) and this led them to overspend on defense to the point of their collapse. At the time people saw Reagan as a cowboy who would start a war, but the best way to have peace is to be the biggest boy on the playground. Reagans time in office was one of peace because of this, other than minor conflicts like Grenada, Lebanon and that little educational lesson taught to Libya for its bombing of the disco in Italy. These were skirmishes that reminded our enemies to leave us alone, and no major war was fought in that era because of this. This is what is lacking today, and this is why are enemies are running over us now. They see us as weak, see no leadership and smell blood in the water. Putin for example is smart, and he knows we have no guts so his armies act without concern for us in Ukraine at this very moment. ISIS knows we will not send troops, so as we speak they undo the hard work of hundreds of thousands of our troops in Iraq. Iran is just laughing at our weakness as our desire for peace forced Kerry and Obama to cave completely on Nukes in Iran. No one takes American power seriously anymore, and the Europeans have not done any better. In a world of western appologists and appeasers, dictators are having a field day.
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