Economic Benefit from Limiting CO2 Emissions (generation, lobby, dictator, Chicago)

[nononsenseguy]

Originally Posted by whogo

I have yet to see anyone give an economic analysis of the costs of the various proposals to reduce CO2 emissions versus the benefit from reducing the effects of climate change. Until then count me on the deniers side. Kind of stupid to spend money when there is no evidence it will do any good.

We must recognize that this is all about controlling people and behaviors. "Climate change" is the convenient hoax that does the trick. Gullible people will fall for anything, and the Leftists know this.

In California now they are trying to pass a bill that will cut gasoline usage by 50%, and to do this they will limit people's driving. They are even trying to force the auto makers to include monitoring devices that will collect information on how much driving a person has done, so that they can control and punish those who exceed their allotted mileage.

This is what tyranny looks like.

[Ceist]

Originally Posted by RCCCB

One volcanic eruption in the world puts more out there than 3 years of man, so it is probably BS that the world doesn't handle CO2 in general.

China is over the top though with the death clouds of pollutants. How about someone go filter that up some.

False.

From the U.S. Geological Survey website:

Volcanic versus anthropogenic CO2 emissions

Q: Do the Earth’s volcanoes emit more CO2 than human activities?

A: Research findings indicate that the answer to this frequently asked question is a clear and unequivocal, “No.” Human activities, responsible for a projected 35 billion metric tons (gigatons) of CO2 emissions in 2010 (Friedlingstein et al., 2010), release an amount of CO2 that dwarfs the annual CO2 emissions of all the world’s degassing subaerial and submarine volcanoes (Gerlach, 2011).

The 35-gigaton projected anthropogenic CO2 emission for 2010 is about 80 to 270 times larger than the respective maximum and minimum annual global volcanic CO2 emission estimates. It is 135 times larger than the highest preferred global volcanic CO2 estimate of 0.26 gigaton per year (Marty and Tolstikhin, 1998).

[Ceist]

Originally Posted by whogo

Where is Ceist and sanspur? They are usually on these AWG threads like white on rice.

I'm too busy debunking the myths and misinformation about the science to even get to all the research on the economics side. But I looked up a few economic studies for you a couple of posts back.

I'm curious. Have you not even read the reports from Working Group 2 and 3 of the IPCC AR5 report? Heaps of research and analysis cited in those reports for you to read.

Here you go

Fifth Assessment Report - Impacts, Adaptation and Vulnerability- WG2

Fifth Assessment Report - Mitigation of Climate Change- WG3

And of course, the report from Working Group I is the Physical Science basis

https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar5/wg1/

[roadrat]

Originally Posted by Ceist

You believe almost every Science Institution in the world is 'scientifically illiterate'?


List of Worldwide Scientific Organizations:
(Scientific Organizations That Hold the Position That Climate Change Has Been Caused by Human Action)

1.Academia Chilena de Ciencias, Chile
2.Academia das Ciencias de Lisboa, Portugal
3.Academia de Ciencias de la República Dominicana
4.Academia de Ciencias Físicas, Matemáticas y Naturales de Venezuela
5.Academia de Ciencias Medicas, Fisicas y Naturales de Guatemala
6.Academia Mexicana de Ciencias,Mexico
7.Academia Nacional de Ciencias de Bolivia
8.Academia Nacional de Ciencias del Peru
9.Académie des Sciences et Techniques du Sénégal
10.Académie des Sciences, France
11.Academies of Arts, Humanities and Sciences of Canada
12.Academy of Athens
13.Academy of Science of Mozambique
14.Academy of Science of South Africa
15.Academy of Sciences for the Developing World (TWAS)
16.Academy of Sciences Malaysia
17.Academy of Sciences of Moldova
18.Academy of Sciences of the Czech Republic
19.Academy of Sciences of the Islamic Republic of Iran
20.Academy of Scientific Research and Technology, Egypt
21.Academy of the Royal Society of New Zealand
22.Accademia Nazionale dei Lincei, Italy
23.Africa Centre for Climate and Earth Systems Science
24.African Academy of Sciences
25.Albanian Academy of Sciences
26.Amazon Environmental Research Institute
27.American Academy of Pediatrics
28.American Anthropological Association
29.American Association for the Advancement of Science
30.American Association of State Climatologists (AASC)
31.American Association of Wildlife Veterinarians
32.American Astronomical Society
33.American Chemical Society
34.American College of Preventive Medicine
35.American Fisheries Society
36.American Geophysical Union
37.American Institute of Biological Sciences
38.American Institute of Physics
39.American Meteorological Society
40.American Physical Society
41.American Public Health Association
42.American Quaternary Association
43.American Society for Microbiology
44.American Society of Agronomy
45.American Society of Civil Engineers
46.American Society of Plant Biologists
47.American Statistical Association
48.Association of Ecosystem Research Centers
49.Australian Academy of Science
50.Australian Bureau of Meteorology
51.Australian Coral Reef Society
52.Australian Institute of Marine Science
53.Australian Institute of Physics
54.Australian Marine Sciences Association
55.Australian Medical Association
56.Australian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
57.Bangladesh Academy of Sciences
58.Botanical Society of America
59.Brazilian Academy of Sciences
60.British Antarctic Survey
61.Bulgarian Academy of Sciences
62.California Academy of Sciences
63.Cameroon Academy of Sciences
64.Canadian Association of Physicists
65.Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospheric Sciences
66.Canadian Geophysical Union
67.Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
68.Canadian Society of Soil Science
69.Canadian Society of Zoologists
70.Caribbean Academy of Sciences views
71.Center for International Forestry Research
72.Chinese Academy of Sciences
73.Colombian Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences
74.Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization (CSIRO) (Australia)
75.Consultative Group on International Agricultural Research
76.Croatian Academy of Arts and Sciences
77.Crop Science Society of America
78.Cuban Academy of Sciences
79.Delegation of the Finnish Academies of Science and Letters
80.Ecological Society of America
81.Ecological Society of Australia
82.Environmental Protection Agency
83.European Academy of Sciences and Arts
84.European Federation of Geologists
85.European Geosciences Union
86.European Physical Society
87.European Science Foundation
88.Federation of American Scientists
89.French Academy of Sciences
90.Geological Society of America
91.Geological Society of Australia
92.Geological Society of London
93.Georgian Academy of Sciences
94.German Academy of Natural Scientists Leopoldina
95.Ghana Academy of Arts and Sciences
96.Indian National Science Academy
97.Indonesian Academy of Sciences
98.Institute of Ecology and Environmental Management
99.Institute of Marine Engineering, Science and Technology
100.Institute of Professional Engineers New Zealand
101.Institution of Mechanical Engineers, UK
102.InterAcademy Council
103.International Alliance of Research Universities
104.International Arctic Science Committee
105.International Association for Great Lakes Research
106.International Council for Science
107.International Council of Academies of Engineering and Technological Sciences
108.International Research Institute for Climate and Society
109.International Union for Quaternary Research
110.International Union of Geodesy and Geophysics
111.International Union of Pure and Applied Physics
112.Islamic World Academy of Sciences
113.Israel Academy of Sciences and Humanities
114.Kenya National Academy of Sciences
115.Korean Academy of Science and Technology
116.Kosovo Academy of Sciences and Arts
117.l'Académie des Sciences et Techniques du Sénégal
118.Latin American Academy of Sciences
119.Latvian Academy of Sciences
120.Lithuanian Academy of Sciences
121.Madagascar National Academy of Arts, Letters, and Sciences
122.Mauritius Academy of Science and Technology
123.Montenegrin Academy of Sciences and Arts
124.National Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences, Argentina
125.National Academy of Sciences of Armenia
126.National Academy of Sciences of the Kyrgyz Republic
127.National Academy of Sciences, Sri Lanka
128.National Academy of Sciences, United States of America
129.National Aeronautics and Space Administration
130.National Association of Geoscience Teachers
131.National Association of State Foresters
132.National Center for Atmospheric Research
133.National Council of Engineers Australia
134.National Institute of Water & Atmospheric Research, New Zealand
135.National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
136.National Research Council
137.National Science Foundation
138.Natural England
139.Natural Environment Research Council, UK
140.Natural Science Collections Alliance
141.Network of African Science Academies
142.New York Academy of Sciences
143.Nicaraguan Academy of Sciences
144.Nigerian Academy of Sciences
145.Norwegian Academy of Sciences and Letters
146.Oklahoma Climatological Survey
147.Organization of Biological Field Stations
148.Pakistan Academy of Sciences
149.Palestine Academy for Science and Technology
150.Pew Center on Global Climate Change
151.Polish Academy of Sciences
152.Romanian Academy
153.Royal Academies for Science and the Arts of Belgium
154.Royal Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences of Spain
155.Royal Astronomical Society, UK
156.Royal Danish Academy of Sciences and Letters
157.Royal Irish Academy
158.Royal Meteorological Society (UK)
159.Royal Netherlands Academy of Arts and Sciences
160.Royal Netherlands Institute for Sea Research
161.Royal Scientific Society of Jordan
162.Royal Society of Canada
163.Royal Society of Chemistry, UK
164.Royal Society of the United Kingdom
165.Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences
166.Russian Academy of Sciences
167.Science and Technology, Australia
168.Science Council of Japan
169.Scientific Committee on Antarctic Research
170.Scientific Committee on Solar-Terrestrial Physics
171.Scripps Institution of Oceanography
172.Serbian Academy of Sciences and Arts
173.Slovak Academy of Sciences
174.Slovenian Academy of Sciences and Arts
175.Society for Ecological Restoration International
176.Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics
177.Society of American Foresters
178.Society of Biology (UK)
179.Society of Systematic Biologists
180.Soil Science Society of America
181.Sudan Academy of Sciences
182.Sudanese National Academy of Science
183.Tanzania Academy of Sciences
184.The Wildlife Society (international)
185.Turkish Academy of Sciences
186.Uganda National Academy of Sciences
187.Union of German Academies of Sciences and Humanities
188.United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
189.University Corporation for Atmospheric Research
190.Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
191.World Association of Zoos and Aquariums
192.World Federation of Public Health Associations
193.World Forestry Congress
194.World Health Organization
195.World Meteorological Organization
196.Zambia Academy of Sciences
197.Zimbabwe Academy of Sciences

You gotta love this list, I'm willing to bet 9 out of 10 of these are nothing more than a PO box and bank account# for some tinpot dictator. For the right amount of funding they will agree that the world is flat.


Bill

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by Ceist

Here you go:

Citi report: slowing global warming would save tens of trillions of dollars

Yet another study finds that reducing carbon emissions saves Americans money - Vox

In charts: how a revenue neutral carbon tax creates jobs, grows the economy

Let's start with the third one as that's the low hanging fruit, they are using BC as example. More than 90% of BC's power comes from hydroelectric unaffected by the tax. If you want a real world example do a little research on BC's cement industry and the problems this is causing for them. The only thing you need cement for is house foundations, sidewalks, bridges, roads, schools, hospitals, manufacturing buildings, airports, sea ports .................

This is simple economics, if you increase the cost of something it is not going to create jobs or grow the economy. When you have other economies like the Chinese that will continue to put online new coal plants as fast as they can it's becomes impossible.

[chicagogeorge]

^^

Good sources he has their. Citizens climate lobby and Vox


How about an article from Nature

Will it Cost $45 Trillion or $545 Trillion to Reduce CO2 Levels by Half

http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/ad...93-2008.08.pdf

Google engineers....

Trying to combat climate change exclusively with today’s renewable energy technologies simply won’t work; we need a fundamentally different approach," wrote Google's Ross Koningstein and David Fork in a piece published yesterday in IEEE's Spectrum

They didn't find promising results:

We decided to combine our energy innovation study’s best-case scenario results with Hansen’s climate model to see whether a 55 percent emission cut by 2050 would bring the world back below that 350-ppm threshold. Our calculations revealed otherwise. Even if every renewable energy technology advanced as quickly as imagined and they were all applied globally, atmospheric CO2 levels wouldn’t just remain above 350 ppm; they would continue to rise exponentially due to continued fossil fuel use. So our best-case scenario, which was based on our most optimistic forecasts for renewable energy, would still result in severe climate change, with all its dire consequences: shifting climatic zones, freshwater shortages, eroding coasts, and ocean acidification, among others. Our reckoning showed that reversing the trend would require...radical technological advances in cheap zero-carbon energy, as well as a method of extracting CO2 from the atmosphere and sequestering the carbon.

Those calculations cast our work at Google’s RE<C program in a sobering new light. Suppose for a moment that it had achieved the most extraordinary success possible, and that we had found cheap renewable energy technologies that could gradually replace all the world’s coal plants -- a situation roughly equivalent to the energy innovation study’s best-case scenario. Even if that dream had come to pass, it still wouldn’t have solved climate change. This realization was frankly shocking: Not only had RE<C failed to reach its goal of creating energy cheaper than coal, but that goal had not been ambitious enough to reverse climate change.

Google Engineers Explain Why They Stopped R&D in Renewable Energy : Greentech Media

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by chicagogeorge

^^

Good sources he has their. Citizens climate lobby and Vox

....and <drumroll> Citi Bank.

[chicagogeorge]

Just noticed I spelled "their" instead of "there". My bad...

Gee I wonder why this is happening over in China

A Look Behind the Headlines on China’s Coal Trends

D]espite additions of substantial wind, solar, and nuclear capacity, when properly adjusted for capacity factor (the amount of annual energy produced per unit of capacity) to reflect production capability, the amount of new coal energy added to the China grid last year exceeded new solar energy by 17 times, new wind energy by more than 4 times, and even new hydro by more than 3 times. And, despite having more than 30 new nuclear reactors under construction, China’s new nuclear capability was still a fraction of new coal energy.

and this in India


India Will Be Using and Importing More Coal

It’s no wonder that India’s coal supplies and transportation systems are struggling to keep pace with surging demand, and more foreign coal are needed to fill the gap. Prime Minister Modi’s “Make in India” campaign will bring in foreign firms to build factories, expand economic growth, and elevate India’s living standards, still among the lowest of the emerging markets.

[chicagogeorge]

REJECTED... China, India & Russia refuse CO2 cuts at Obama's Arctic conference.... Gee I wonder why?

https://www.rt.com/news/313975-arcti...imate-roadmap/

[whogo]

Originally Posted by Ceist

False.

From the U.S. Geological Survey website:

Volcanic versus anthropogenic CO2 emissions

Q: Do the Earth’s volcanoes emit more CO2 than human activities?

A: Research findings indicate that the answer to this frequently asked question is a clear and unequivocal, “No.” Human activities, responsible for a projected 35 billion metric tons (gigatons) of CO2 emissions in 2010 (Friedlingstein et al., 2010), release an amount of CO2 that dwarfs the annual CO2 emissions of all the world’s degassing subaerial and submarine volcanoes (Gerlach, 2011).

The 35-gigaton projected anthropogenic CO2 emission for 2010 is about 80 to 270 times larger than the respective maximum and minimum annual global volcanic CO2 emission estimates. It is 135 times larger than the highest preferred global volcanic CO2 estimate of 0.26 gigaton per year (Marty and Tolstikhin, 1998).

Can you directly answer the question?