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Like all "normal" people I find abortion a tragedy for any woman to have to go through.
HOWEVER it is her body and her choice. Life is not as simple as some so called pro-life people make it out to be.
No woman should have to go through a pregnancy and give birth against her wish EVEN if she was irresponsible and even promiscuous etc...
I find it sad, and very regrettable that women are put in a position where making that choice becomes the only option but for whatever reasons her life comes before the life of an unborn foetus.
I am sure there are a tiny, minuscule amount of women who just don't care and have a termination as you would go a the dentist but the very, very vast majority have to think long and hard before doing it and it is an agonizing decision for them. One which they have to live with for the rest of their lives. Some will regret it , some will not. That is for them to deal with it. Without interference from self-righteous arrogant people whose sense of morality is so distorted as to refuse to see what agony this decision is to most women. It is not something the vast majority of us would take lightly and flippantly.
I wish we would stop demonizing them and try instead to offer support, compassion and empathy to them.
To imply that women are just sexually incontinent and unwilling to take any inconvenience is just arrogant, glib, churlish and intellectually dishonest.
Life is complicated, things do happen and unwanted children are not the answer. I find the "pro-foetus group to be anti-woman's rights. I will never place a unborn foetus life's before a woman's right to chose what is right for her and her body.
As for cases of rape and when the unborn threatens the well-being of the woman, there shouldn't even be any question.
ALL women are different and all have different ways of reacting to a pregnancy. A blanket rule for everyone is ludicrous and a breach of individual rights.
Yes some women who are raped can face having the child . Good for them. Most cannot. One cannot categorise women as being all of the same mind. That is just utterly stupid, demeaning and utterly repellent in my opinion.
A baby to me is what comes out of the womb with the first cry of its lungs. Until then it is unborn and therefore though a living organism, it has no rights which supercede those of the woman.
Abortion is something we should all be sad about, but nobody but the woman has the right to decide what to with her body.
As long as no woman is ever forced to have an abortion then no woman should be forced to carry a pregnancy to term.
She and she only knows what is right for her.
I find those billboards a tad too patronising and think it will upset a lot of women who are still suffering from the stress of having aborted. They are an over-simplification of far deeper issue than is ever discussed.
So I think maybe there should also be graphic billboards of women who have resorted to knitting needles and back street abortionists , of women who have hung themselves because they couldn't face having an unwanted child. The reality of giving birth to unwanted kids is pretty grim too. For the child as well as the mother.
It we are going to paly this blame game, fair enough but let's show a balanced argument with BOTH sides represented.
Some people are so self-righteous they would prefer to go back to the good old days of self-abortion and women dying rather than having an unwanted child. That to me is pure barbarism.
Far far more barbaric than un unborn foetus being terminated.
All pregnancies are different, all women are different. We deserve a bit more respect than being told what to do with our womb, our vagina and forced to give birth.
Most women are not infanticide crazy monsters who just "murder" "babies". They are women who are desperate, distressed,and most likely abandoned by the so self righteous crowds of people waiting to stone them.
Abortion, sad , yes, a tragedy yes, regrettable absolutely, but a crime NO.
I think the legal limit for abortion at the moment is adequate ( 24 weeks in the UK) but as AmzonJohn asked for us to be honest , then I will be, and shock and horrify people and say that should for whatever reasons a woman be mentally or physically at risk from having a baby then abortion should be available until much, much later. Yes the "baby" will be almost fully developed but at the end of the day the life of a living mother against the life of an unborn foetus is no contest for me.
I would find it horrific, tragic, and a terrible , terrible thing but would rather that than a woman who would commit suicide or die from complications. Any day. I am not a man but if I were I know my wife would come first. At all costs no matter how bloody and gruesome.
Is that honest enough AmamzonJohn ? And I do know exactly what an abortion entails, gruesome details and all. This does not change my view in the slightest.
The idea that being pro-choice means being naive about the physical aspect of abortion itself is arrogant and utterly naive. Pro-Choice people are just as "educated" in all things birth as "pro-life" people. Possibly more.
It is not about being fluffy minded, sandal wearing hippies with rose-tinted spectacles.
it's about making tough, extremely tough choices and allowing us as women the right to make these. Women who have abortions are not demons. They are people who because of whatever circumstances are unable to face a pregnancy and having a child.
They do not deserve being judged by people who have no idea what THEY are going through. Only they ( that particular woman not just women who have been faced with the same dilemma) know what they can and cannot cope with. Not you, not another woman in the same circumstances. Just they and they alone.
Better sex education would be a beginning. But it's never going to solve the problems entirely.
At the end of the day it comes to priority and mine goes to the living woman.
EVEN after the foetus is viable. There I said it.
Last edited by Mooseketeer; 01-30-2008 at 07:42 AM..
Like all "normal" people I find abortion a tragedy for any woman to have to go through.
HOWEVER it is her body and her choice. Life is not as simple as some so called pro-life people make it out to be.
No woman should have to go through a pregnancy and give birth against her wish EVEN if she was irresponsible and even promiscuous etc...
I find it sad, and very regrettable that women are put in a position where making that choice becomes the only option but for whatever reasons her life comes before the life of an unborn foetus.
I am sure there are a tiny, minuscule amount of women who just don't care and have a termination as you would go a the dentist but the very, very vast majority have to think long and hard before doing it and it is an agonizing decision for them. One which they have to live with for the rest of their lives. Some will regret it , some will not. That is for them to deal with it. Without interference from self-righteous arrogant people whose sense of morality is so distorted as to refuse to see what agony this decision is to most women. It is not something the vast majority of us would take lightly and flippantly.
I wish we would stop demonizing them and try instead to offer support, compassion and empathy to them.
To imply that women are just sexually incontinent and unwilling to take any inconvenience is just arrogant, glib, churlish and intellectually dishonest.
Life is complicated, things do happen and unwanted children are not the answer. I find the "pro-foetus group to be anti-woman's rights. I will never place a unborn foetus life's before a woman's right to chose what is right for her and her body.
As for cases of rape and when the unborn threatens the well-being of the woman, there shouldn't even be any question.
ALL women are different and all have different ways of reacting to a pregnancy. A blanket rule for everyone is ludicrous and a breach of individual rights.
Yes some women who are raped can face having the child . Good for them. Most cannot. One cannot categorise women as being all of the same mind. That is just utterly stupid, demeaning and utterly repellent in my opinion.
A baby to me is what comes out of the womb with the first cry of its lungs. Until then it is unborn and therefore though a living organism, it has no rights which supercede those of the woman.
Abortion is something we should all be sad about, but nobody but the woman has the right to decide what to with her body.
As long as no woman is ever forced to have an abortion then no woman should be forced to carry a pregnancy to term.
She and she only knows what is right for her.
I find those billboards a tad too patronising and think it will upset a lot of women who are still suffering from the stress of having aborted. They are an over-simplification of far deeper issue than is ever discussed.
So I think maybe there should also be graphic billboards of women who have resorted to knitting needles and back street abortionists , of women who have hung themselves because they couldn't face having an unwanted child. The reality of giving birth to unwanted kids is pretty grim too. For the child as well as the mother.
It we are going to paly this blame game, fair enough but let's show a balanced argument with BOTH sides represented.
Some people are so self-righteous they would prefer to go back to the good old days of self-abortion and women dying rather than having an unwanted child. That to me is pure barbarism.
Far far more barbaric than un unborn foetus being terminated.
All pregnancies are different, all women are different. We deserve a bit more respect than being told what to do with our womb, our vagina and forced to give birth.
Most women are not infanticide crazy monsters who just "murder" "babies". They are women who are desperate, distressed,and most likely abandoned by the so self righteous crowds of people waiting to stone them.
Abortion, sad , yes, a tragedy yes, regrettable absolutely, but a crime NO.
I admire your honesty. Few people actually admit to allowing an abortion, for any reason, until it "comes out of the womb with the first cry of its lungs". But, isn't the fetus still a part of the woman's body, until the umbilical cord is cut? Shouldn't the woman's choice be extended to that point?
I think part of the problem is those who support abortion are driven by emotion instead of logic.
Logically you cannot be for the woman's right to an abortion AND believe that right stops at viability.
A woman has the right to her own body or she doesn't.
If you believe she does you then MUST be in favor of permitting third trimester abortions up to the due date.
It is odd how adamant pro-abortion supporters except when it comes to some hazy cut off date that is constantly being pushed back by medical advancement.
As it stands right now, viability stands at around 24 weeks(168 days),the human gestation period is 40 weeks(280 days).
Each trimester is just over 93 days.
Abortions should then be restricted(using the idea of viability) well into the second trimester.
At that point it is born not unborn so no longer a fetus. For arguements sake, I know some 30 yr olds whose cords have not yet been cut.LOL.
You're right about that. lol. However, of course we are speaking physiologically. So, as you see it, it has nothing to do with being a part of the woman's body, but whether it's considered "born" or not?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaznjohn
Even AFTER the fetus is viable?
My opinion is no. If you are getting one within the first trimester, Ok. After that, you've missed your window.
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