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Unless you address fundamental issues with - poor - youth, you will not make a dent and the funding (private or public) is not the issue or problem.
1) Its not a black issue. If you focus on the demographics (family, age, violence, etc) you will find the skin color to be a red herring. It is the parents age, salary, location, education, etc. Not skin color - that is the isuse.
2) it is a poor issue. Don't confuse the fact that there are more "poor" black people impacted that its a skin problem. The white kids with the same family demographics and issues have the same issue.
3) Listen to freakeconmics and planet money. Both have done VERY interesting pieces on charter schools, and pre-school, and summer school.
The reality is that for the working poor. . .we need a better approach. Its not the "funding type' of the school. We need mandated pre-school, we need year round school.
The current system (pay for school until kindergarden, by then your to late. . and summer breaks designed to punish poor youths). . .is the issue
Quote:
Originally Posted by branh0913
So it seems that private education is a win win for these poor black communities. Perhaps we should try it.
or put another way "White guy stands up, I have a solution for you" and has no idea what he is talking about.
I think it is more about black parents being a disaster for the public education system. They don't care much for making their children stay out of trouble, obey the rules, teacher etc...forget about coming home and doing homework.
Again, this is incorrect. Not every black person grows up to be a criminal, there is just a small segment of the overall black population where this stuff happens. Let's stop defending the public school system as if it's a flawless institution. Even if black kids didn't have these aforementioned "issues", they'd still come out incompotent at the end of the day.
I mean what good is it to anyone to be the best of the worst?
There is actually no kid who don't want to learn. There are only children who aren't interested in what's being taught. The key is to make what is being taught more interesting. I'm pretty sure most children see school as work more so than something enjoyable.
you're pretty sure, huh? and parents have nothing, nothing at all to do with their kids education.
yes - exactly. they love to preach about getting respect, but give none. that IMO is the crux of the issue. public school is not the catch all of evils.
Of course the public schools are to blame. I mean what are they really teaching these days? All educators are pretty much told how they should teach, what they should teach, and hopefully the student catch on. Even if the student really needed to try a different method of teaching for certain students, they probably couldn't. The first reason is that they're forced to teach a certain way, the second reason is that even if they were allowed to, class sizes are way to large to give students individual time.
Also who is "they"?
In either case, mathematics was my favorite topic in school growing up. Do you think math is presented in a way to students to make it at all interesting? Most of my mathematics education came from my teaching myself, not from schools. Because schools don't make topics interesting.
Kids don't really know how what they're being taught is all that interesting, so they just learn about it enough to hopefully pass a class, and forget about it by the next semester.
Blame this on your awesome and flawless public education system.
I'm not proposing charter schools. I mean purely private, not working with the government in any way.
While many schools have serious problems (my public education thankfully was top notch), I don't believe public schools are a lost cause and can't support privatization.
you're pretty sure, huh? and parents have nothing, nothing at all to do with their kids education.
ok
So are you saying that parents should replace the educators? So if a child is struggling with Algebra, it's the parents who should open up a math book and start teaching them?
I'm not saying parents can't be the blame, when there is blatant neglect, of course they are. But fi the parent themselves don't really know the subject matter being taught, how critical can they really be?
It's like me criticizing the way a plane is built, when I don't know the first thing about aerospace engineereing.
While many schools have serious problems (my public education thankfully was top notch), I don't believe public schools are a lost cause and can't support privatization.
Yes they are a lost cause at this point. I mean you basically have to squash the entire system and rebuild it from the ground up. That's not going to happen, let's be honest with ourselves. This is why it's time for the private market to tackle this problem.
So are you saying that parents should replace the educators? So if a child is struggling with Algebra, it's the parents who should open up a math book and start teaching them?
I'm not saying parents can't be the blame, when there is blatant neglect, of course they are. But fi the parent themselves don't really know the subject matter being taught, how critical can they really be?
It's like me criticizing the way a plane is built, when I don't know the first thing about aerospace engineereing.
That's not the only thing.
Parents are the single biggest influence on their children. Teachers/schools have the kids for 7 hours or so a day, the parents have them the rest of the time.
You want some interesting info look up the statistics (and the numbers are broken up both for economics and race) for numbers of books/magazines/newspapers in a household, amount of time parents spend interacting with their children (playing, just talking to, etc.), the vocabulary acquisition broken down by age group (I'll give you a little one here, the average white kid's vocabulary is almost twice as large as the average black kid's at age 5), amount of time spent reading to the children.
Then you need to look and see that test scores (both standardized and SAT/AP) scores are similar for poor white students and middle class black students.
Then you have to look at the rate for each group for children raised by single parents.
Once you have that information you can then look at frequency of juvenile delinquency comparing children of single parent and two parent families.
Parents are the single biggest influence on their children. Teachers/schools have the kids for 7 hours or so a day, the parents have them the rest of the time.
You want some interesting info look up the statistics (and the numbers are broken up both for economics and race) for numbers of books/magazines/newspapers in a household, amount of time parents spend interacting with their children (playing, just talking to, etc.), the vocabulary acquisition broken down by age group (I'll give you a little one here, the average white kid's vocabulary is almost twice as large as the average black kid's at age 5), amount of time spent reading to the children.
Then you need to look and see that test scores (both standardized and SAT/AP) scores are similar for poor white students and middle class black students.
Then you have to look at the rate for each group for children raised by single parents.
Once you have that information you can then look at frequency of juvenile delinquency comparing children of single parent and two parent families.
This is research you need to do. Then come back.
I don't doubt your numbers. As a matter of fact, it just proves that black kids shouldn't really use public education. Clearly they can't excel in the system. So I'm not sure what's wrong with just having the option of private school for them. Seems like a win win all the way around. They're not eating budget out of the public school system because they're being educated via private education
Also, I asked you to substantiate the claim that black parents on average care less about their children than people of other races. Which you've yet to do.
I never made the claim, good grief man you made that claim that black parents are more disciplined with their kids. The discipline issue was the only assertion I made, and I stated that in fact black parents don't discipline their kids more than any other race. They beat their kids more than any other race according to all of the articles I posted.
I never made any such claim that black parents care less than other races.
You're spinning in cirlces here Don Quixote. I'm not the windmill you're looking for.
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and parents have nothing, nothing at all to do with their kids education. 
